Warbler - having trouble with ID (1 Viewer)

[Edward woodwood]

not really Tim100

the colour of the median crown stripe rules out any Yellow-browed types

I'm still not 100% it's not a Lemon-rumped but i expect Pallas' is the one, esp given the fore-super

atb
Tim

 

[Nutcracker]

I still think the bill is too long and heavy, and also not all-black, and the head the wrong shape

Compare this classic individual (from Heligoland, where there's minimal risk of potential confusion species):
http://www.oag-helgoland.de/sprachen/multi/bilder/voegel/bird4.jpg
Tiny, all-black bill, head forming nearly half the body.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Hi Pete

...it's not fluffed up like the ones on the east coast in autumn making it appear slenderer etc...?

Tim

 

[Jane Turner]

I've seen plenty of Pallas' look just like this bird Pete... including the one in my garden. Pallas's are actually quite variable.

 

[M Cowming]

How did you manage to take so many great pics and miss the rump? Hard to argue against Pallas's now, which I did concede originally that it could be, but, that jizz does not convince me at all, regardless. The bird is wet but not enough around the head/facial area to make it "appear" more elongated. Pallas's camp is out in front with this one, but, without a yellow rump, and with that jizz...I'm not convinced.

Regards,

 

[HH75]

Hi all,
This bird appears to be a Pallas's Warbler undergoing partial moult into summer plumage (a Yellow-browed Warbler found here in Cork city last April looked similarly tatty about the head and breast when initially found, but was a lot smarter before it left).
While I concede that it could be one of the 'Pallas's complex' (Lemon-rumped etc), as I know very little about these, I still feel that it is too close to Pallas's. The strong median crown stripe rules out Yellow-browed, and the strong eyestripe and 'bulging' fore-supercilium are also features which support Pallas's.
Harry

 

[M Cowming]

Yes, I agree that the median crown stripe is totally pro-Pallas's, which became very evident with the last 3 photos. I suppose the bird being in moult would lend to the rather "elongated" shape theory I am steadily losing grasp of.

Pallas's it is!

 

[hannu]

We should remember that bird is moulting and also wet !

A Field Guide to the Rare Birds of Britain and Europe (P. Ahlström, P. Colston etc)
tell us as follows:
" Phy pro :
All plumages: Tiny size; bold head pattern (bright yellow when fresh, especially in front of/above eye), with a conspicuous pale supercilium and median crown-stripe, and dark lateral crown-stripes; double wing-bars; and pale yellow rump. It could only be confused with Yellow -browed Warbler.
Phy ino ssp ino :
All plumages: Resembles Pallas's Warbler, but the head pattern is clearly different.
The crown is not as dark, and it lacks or has, at the most, a fant median crown-stripe.
The supercilium is less strongly yellow (but can be pale yellowish or even whitish in worn Pallas's). The dark-eye-stripe is less marked, and it does not curve down distincly at the rear end as it frequently does in Pallas's. Also, the rump is concolorous with the underparts, and the wing-bars are not as yellow as in fresh Pallas's."

This bird has a little exceptional colour of bill and maybe also the lenght of bill, but probably it variates a lot.
We can see that bird has dark lateral crown-stripes, even it's a little bit messy (pic 3).
This bird has a strong yellow supercilium. All other small details are difficult to see, because of wet and moulting plumage and also because of light. E.g. the colour of wing-bars. The habitus of head is more Pallas's (a long and low head) than YBW (more circular and compact head).
I think it's still Pallas's !

Hannu

 

[roger hill]

Hi M Cowming
Another consideration could be that the bird is out of its eliment and trying to keep a low profile.
Also we tend to see Pallas's up in trees,very rarely on the deck,so dont have time to study posture.
Whilst on the scillys last year and shortly after looking at the Ovenbird. i found a Pallas's coming down from the trees and landing in the field to feed. As soon as it landed it made a grab for whatever it was that went for and was back in the trees before you could blink. The accompanying chiffchaffs quite happily moved around on the ground.
You can use this as a "get out of jail" card.

Regards Roger.

 

[Nutcracker]

Yes, I agree that the median crown stripe is totally pro-Pallas's, which became very evident with the last 3 photos. I suppose the bird being in moult would lend to the rather "elongated" shape theory I am steadily losing grasp of.

Pallas's it is!

What about all the other Chinese Phylloscs with a median crown stripe?

I've never seen it, but Phylloscopus davisoni looks a good candidate, and winters in southern China. Looking at pics, I can't see anything that doesn't match for that, including the large bill with a pale base.

 

[M Cowming]

Hi Pete,

I already stated that I have no experience of other "Chinese Phylloscs" so cannot comment. Like I have repeated, plumage suggests strongly that this bird is a Pallas's but something about the jizz doesn't convince me that that is the case. It's just a gut feeling, that's all. Some have made the point that this may be down to the bird being in moult....maybe they're right.

I'm still not 100% in the Pallas's camp for that one reason but am ready to bow to the mounting evidence suggesting otherwise. If it is indeed possibly another Chinese Phyllosc, then I would be very eager to hear what it is and why it is so.

Hi Roger, as regards getting out of jail, I don't personally feel that I have landed myself there in the first place. Most people clearly think it's a Pallas's..it probably is. I'm just voicing that one reason why I'm not convinced. I've only seen one Pallas's, quite well, and judging by that one sighting and countless photos on the net, I just expect pallas's to be more "Bull-necked" and "blunt" about the bill area. This bird, in my eyes doesn't live up to that but maybe it is so because of it being on the ground, wet etc.

Regards,

 

[roger hill]

M
Its good that we do voice our own opinions.So many times just one person has gone against the flow of thought and created a debate and better understanding has come of it..
The gat out of jail reference was meant as a joke. But could just so easily be a reason to be cautious.
Like i said before,we dont get to study the rare philloscs on the deck,so this is relatively new ground for most of us

Regards Roger.

 

[anonymous_guy]

Well, Roger, M, et al, it is nice to see that you are not at one anothers throats.

The debate in my local community forum only comprises 3 of us that talk about birds, & I only started taking pics about 2 weeks ago & birdwatching about a month ago - so I don't count.

My fellow forum poster is convinced it is a YBW having seen several of them on another area of Lamma Island.
However he has posted a drawing (from another site) of the PW at http://www.lamma.com.hk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17719#17719, but because of the yellowing on the breast area under the wings, the yellowing around the rump, and the stripe on the crown would lean me towards the PW.
Much much larger images of the bird can be see in the same forum, by clicking on the images.

In the pictures of the side views, the bird at that point was not wet, but in the head on view, which was the last of the series, if you look closely you can see the water coming off the bird.

We had had no rain on Lamma for several months & the spot was a leaking water mains that attracted several different species that came to water & wash. So the first couple of pics of the bird were "dry".

Just for fun, here is a ballet sequence of the same bird, although on one you might be able to detect a yellow rump.


However not wanting to create too much of a fuss, if you want it renamed as The Lamma Leaf-warbler, I will quite happily go along with that. :h?:

Failing which I'd go for the PW.

 

[Edward woodwood]

on distribution alone, it has to be Pallas' or Chinese Leaf

Lemon-rumped, although very similar to the bird in the pic is a non-starter on distribution

the bill is perhaps more Chinese Leaf Warbler but not sure about the face pattern/pale spot.... other features (slightly larger and longer-billed) fit CLW as well but i don't have field experience of this bird yet (should get it this year though!)

so CLW?

Tim

 

[Nutcracker]

on distribution alone, it has to be Pallas' or Chinese Leaf

Er, no - distribution is fine for Phylloscopus davisoni according to the map in MacKinnon & Phillipps

 

[hannu]

"Do you have any better work to do as identify wrong clear Pallas's ? ;-)"
I asked many of my friends, which have visited in China
(especially Beidaihe-area), and they said, that's clear Pallas's.
Pallas's is quite common wintering bird in South Asia !
It's obvious that bird is not YBW !
Head figures does not be suitable to YBW.
Instead figures are suitable to Pallas's !
The other species, which has mentioned, are far-fetched.

Hannu

 

[Edward woodwood]

Pete

davisoni isn't in the Honk Kong list

Mackinnon maps are awful. We pubished a very critical review in OBC Bulletin a while back

I was drunk last nite when i sugested CLW
I'm a sober Pallas again now!

Tim B

 

[anonymous_guy]

Well........, thank you everybody - guess I'll be going with PW
Guy :scribe:

 

[Jane Turner]

can we have some more Far Eastrn Phylloscs to play with please. This was fun. The Pallas's that was in my garden for most of a week did get on the floor on occasion..and when it did it looked just like this

 

[hannu]

can we have some more Far Eastrn Phylloscs to play with please. This was fun. The Pallas's that was in my garden for most of a week did get on the floor on occasion..and when it did it looked just like this

Such as P. tenellipes or P.occipitalis or P. ijimae ?