What additions would you introduce to our avifauna....? (1 Viewer)

[KenM]

Yesterday, I raised my head to a squawking ''half squadron'' of RN Parakeets and a sole Magpie, joining forces in driving off a flyover female Sprawk.

I thought this although natural (both species potential prey items)..a little incongruous...the pairing of the ''native'' with the introduced ''escape''.

This got me thinking about our ''originally pure'' bio diversity...how it's changed since at least Roman times, and what currently constitutes our ''pure remainder'' in percentage terms of the whole?

Introduced species such as (Red Kite, WTS. Eagle e.g.) are ''qualified'' by their previous historical presence, as compared against accidental/deliberate releases from...Mute Swan to North American Crayfish...Buddleia to Japanese Knotweed...Chestnut trees to Grey squirrels, the list is comprehensively long...and the ensuing impact as such, from an historical context, up to the present time, are probably incalculable!

As we have clearly unwittingly...f****d-up? our Sceptered Isle...why not introduce some potentially beneficial species?...such as Cooper's Hawk, in NA they sit between Sharp-shinned Hawk and Goshawk (good at culling Squirrels). At the moment, they don't have an ''effective'' avian predator within the UK. while at the other end of the avian spectrum why not introduce Anna's Hummingbird? attractive pollinators that are resident, and range as far North as Alaska...what would you introduce and why?

 

[pshute]

Given that the system was already in balance, what sort of benefits were you thinking these species would provide that the existing ones don't, given a chance?

I don't think you can predict what species will do well and what effect they'll have, so I think it's best to concentrate on protecting what species are left and their habitat, and on at least slowing the spread of invasive species.

There are already too many sources of accidental and semi accidental introductions without adding deliberate ones.

 

[KenM]

Given that the system was already in balance,

Yes...the existing balance...contains imported and natives.


what sort of benefits were you thinking these species would provide that the existing ones don't, given a chance?

Thought I'd loosely qualified reasons for both?


I don't think you can predict what species will do well and what effect they'll have, so I think it's best to concentrate on protecting what species are left and their habitat, and on at least slowing the spread of invasive species.

I agree...you can't predict how the environment will respond to apparent ''might be'' beneficial species, as you couldn't with those already introduced, whose negative effects are already known


There are already too many sources of accidental and semi accidental introductions without adding deliberate ones.

Who's to say...that a measured approach to any new introductions, would be any worse, than that which has taken place over the last millennia?

 

[Farnboro John]

Who's to say...that a measured approach to any new introductions, would be any worse, than that which has taken place over the last millennia?

The history of biological control of both native and introduced species is a catalogue of awfulness that would boggle your mind. Believe me you are proposing something that will make matters worse not better.

John

 

[njlarsen]

Plenty of examples where introduction of a species has had entirely unexpected results, usually pretty bad. [though, sometimes a little thought would have predicted that the expectations should have at least included those that did take place].

The coopers hawk example: what will happen to e.g., thrushes in the UK (are they not easier to catch for the hawk than squirrels?), and what will happen when introducing a migratory species to take care of a problem that is non-migratory?

Niels

 

[KenM]

The coopers hawk example: what will happen to e.g., thrushes in the UK (are they not easier to catch for the hawk than squirrels?), and what will happen when introducing a migratory species to take care of a problem that is non-migratory?

Niels

If we take the above mentioned Cooper's Hawk, why would that target...say Thrushes, more so, than our existing Sparrowhawk? It's intermediate in size between our two existing Accips, and as such would take larger prey items than Accipter nisus.

For example we have Introduced the grey squirrel which has multiplied to such an extent, that it can't be effectively controlled, and we take the consequences of that damage to include egg and nestling predation, not to mention the effect that it's had on our native Reds.

We seem to be happy in releasing Sea Eagles/Red Kites from Scandinavia and Spain on the basis that they were original colonists, and as such deserve re-introduction.

I'm broadly in agreement there, even though our ecosystem was "muddling through" without them.

Why not introduce an effective predator that "does just that" alongside a prey item that currently can't be controlled..with one that has evolved with..and if the experiment failed, ie didn't impact on carolinensis to the material detriment of our existing fauna.

It would not remain an ongoing "obstacle" as has been shown with the way that BOPS are routinely controlled by parties that have "vested interests" in their demise.

The reasons for this thread were given at the onset, albeit not stated at the time...it was meant to be slightly "tongue in cheek", clearly the responses so far, have been more "harbinger of doom" than I would have anticipated.

So lets "lighten-up" a bit and get back to topic...what additions..and why?

 

[chris butterworth]

Introducing 'effective predators'? I suggest you look to the'effectiveness' of deliberately introducing Stoats and Weasels to New Zealand. While something like Anna's Hummingbird may seem innocuous, and even of benefit to the pollination of native plants at a shallow level, looking more deeply raises the questions "Which UK plants have suitably shaped flowers for Hummers to feed from, produce enough nectar and, more importantly, what will be the effect on our embattled invertebrate fauna?" Connecting the re-establishment (not re-introduction - they weren't introduced in the first place ) of species that were made extinct by humans with the deliberate introduction of exotic species, for whatever purpose, is perpetuating the worldwide damage done by both accidental and deliberate introduction.

Chris

 

[Swannery Steve]

Yesterday, I raised my head to a squawking ''half squadron'' of RN Parakeets and a sole Magpie, joining forces in driving off a flyover female Sprawk.

I thought this although natural (both species potential prey items)..a little incongruous...the pairing of the ''native'' with the introduced ''escape''.

This got me thinking about our ''originally pure'' bio diversity...how it's changed since at least Roman times, and what currently constitutes our ''pure remainder'' in percentage terms of the whole?

Introduced species such as (Red Kite, WTS. Eagle e.g.) are ''qualified'' by their previous historical presence, as compared against accidental/deliberate releases from...Mute Swan to North American Crayfish...Buddleia to Japanese Knotweed...Chestnut trees to Grey squirrels, the list is comprehensively long...and the ensuing impact as such, from an historical context, up to the present time, are probably incalculable!

As we have clearly unwittingly...f****d-up? our Sceptered Isle...why not introduce some potentially beneficial species?...such as Cooper's Hawk, in NA they sit between Sharp-shinned Hawk and Goshawk (good at culling Squirrels). At the moment, they don't have an ''effective'' avian predator within the UK. while at the other end of the avian spectrum why not introduce Anna's Hummingbird? attractive pollinators that are resident, and range as far North as Alaska...what would you introduce and why?

I think you'll find that although the breeding population was widely augmented by releases (much in the same way as Mallard and Gadwall) the Mute Swan is a native species (i.e. it occurred here naturally way before releases) hence it's inclusion in category A by the BOU!

 

[stonechat1]

What additions would you introduce to our avifauna....?
NONE

 

[Allen S. Moore]

What additions would you introduce to our avifauna....?

None. The planet has been bleeped up as it is by idiots introducing creatures to where they don't naturally belong. Imagine the biodiversity if these introductions hadn't taken place.

 

[david kelly]

There is some evidence that we have a native which effects Grey Squirrels and it is spreading, the Pine Marten.

David

 

[MJB]

Introducing 'effective predators'? I suggest you look to the'effectiveness' of deliberately introducing Stoats and Weasels to New Zealand. While something like Anna's Hummingbird may seem innocuous, and even of benefit to the pollination of native plants at a shallow level, looking more deeply raises the questions "Which UK plants have suitably shaped flowers for Hummers to feed from, produce enough nectar and, more importantly, what will be the effect on our embattled invertebrate fauna?" Chris

Since Anna's Hummingbird is a migrant well-adapted to the landscapes on its migration route and its wintering grounds, is there any realistic chance that it would survive a trans-Saharan journey?:-C
MJB

 

[KenM]

Since Anna's Hummingbird is a migrant well-adapted to the landscapes on its migration route and its wintering grounds, is there any realistic chance that it would survive a trans-Saharan journey?:-C
MJB

Anna's Hummingbird is resident between the West side of the Canadian border down to the Mexican border.

 

[Simon Wates]

Anna's Hummingbird is resident between the West side of the Canadian border down to the Mexican border.

So its OK to introduce them then - sorted

Its flippancy and careless thought that has produced all the terrible problems in the large part. Even if all known factors are thoroughly studied the negative effects that alien species have on an environment are pretty unpredictable.

Danger zone

 

[Mysticete]

Which doesn' have a climate remotely like that of Britain...first bad freeze and bam, there goes your Anna's...

 

[fugl]

To play the devil's advocate here, what about "replacement" species, do they come under the ban too? In much of North America, for example, the extirpated native races of Peregrine were replaced locally by non-natives as a matter of convenience. A question in this case of subspecies, of course, not full species, but the principle's the same.

 

[Jos Stratford]

... at the other end of the avian spectrum why not introduce Anna's Hummingbird? attractive pollinators that are resident, and range as far North as Alaska...

Hopefully you would not be in charge the introduction program - they do not go anywhere near Alaska, so you'd have a few miserable shivering hummingbirds cursing you if you'd let them loose in comparable zones in Europe :-O

 

[DMW]

:t: I'm thinking of letting a few Cane Toads loose in my garden to keep the slugs down - I mean, how much harm could an amphibian do? And in the unlikely event they get out of hand, a few Brown Tree Snakes ought to resolve the problem.

 

[King Edward]

Introducing 'effective predators'? I suggest you look to the'effectiveness' of deliberately introducing Stoats and Weasels to New Zealand.

Not really a valid comparison, since NZ has no native terrestrial mammals apart from bats. Unsurprisingly, colonisation by humans and their introduction of stoats, cats etc. has been devastating for the natives. Britain, on the other hand, already has two Accipiter species similar to the one proposed for introduction, so it seems unlikely that it would have anything like so severe an impact. UK native birds, for instance, are already adapted to detecting and avoiding hawk attacks. Not that I support the introduction idea, and there could of course still be unforeseen consequences (e.g. perhaps it would especially predate red squirrels).

To play the devil's advocate here, what about "replacement" species, do they come under the ban too? In much of North America, for example, the extirpated native races of Peregrine were replaced locally by non-natives as a matter of convenience. A question in this case of subspecies, of course, not full species, but the principle's the same.

Assuming that North American species and ecosystems have developed in the presence of Peregrines, an important top predator, its presence is surely highly desirable to maintain ecological balance. Obviously the native subspecies would be best, but unless there is evidence that the behaviour of a replacement subspecies would be significantly different from the original then that has to be the next best thing.

Same thing for e.g. Galapagos tortoises - where islands have lost their native subspecies, reintroduction of a similar subspecies should help to restore the rest of the native ecology.

 

[Farnboro John]

Reintroduction = playing penitent human.

Good idea.

Introduction = playing God.

Bad idea.

John