• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

When Cute Deer Go Bad (1 Viewer)

tmac

Active member
March 20, 2005

EDITORIAL

When Cute Deer Go Bad



Forgive us if you are among the millions of gardeners, farmers, bird-watchers, drivers, fence builders, claims adjusters, body-shop operators, roadkill scrapers, 911 dispatchers, physical therapists and chiropractors who know this already.

White-tailed deer are a plague.

In their overwhelming abundance, they are prime examples of an ecosystem badly out of balance. They denude forests, making life impossible for vulnerable native plants and birds while allowing invasive species to thrive. While deer profoundly vex suburban gardeners, that annoyance pales next to the lethal danger they pose to drivers.

Now, even bird lovers want the deer subdued. The New Jersey Audubon Society, in a report last week, urged the consideration of lethal means to solve the problem, arguing that fencing, contraception and other gentle tactics have proved largely ineffective. The group wants the government to rethink conservation policies it says are intended to maximize herds for hunters, and to consider - especially in the suburbs, where hunting is too dangerous - bringing in sharpshooters.

It may sound harsh, even strange coming from an organization whose mission is to foster "environmental awareness and a conservation ethic." But the group - which does not speak for the National Audubon Society - has it exactly right.

Deer are simply heeding the biological imperative to go forth and multiply. With no natural predators, and the suburbs a year-round salad bar, they have slipped out of their ecological niche - and it's our fault, not theirs. The deer did not ask human beings to create the kind of predator-free suburban landscapes in which they now thrive. But the mountain lion, gray wolf and bobcat are not about to return, and the houses and highways are staying put. People, therefore, must own up to their place in a compromised food chain, and assume the responsibility for managing it well.

Unfortunately, deer contradict our innate assumption that only ugly creatures can be vermin. As the recent release of the "Bambi" DVD reminds us, they seem miscast as villains. But wise conservation means looking at the environment as a whole - from the smallest wildflower on forest floor to the biggest brown-eyed herbivore. The whole system - not just the prettiest mammals - needs protection.
 
Very true; and not just North America, many parts of Britain too (except it's other species of deer here)

Unfortunately in the US at least, nothing much will get done about it, as the hunting lobby (which wants high deer numbers) is too strong.
 
Solon.Ohio In an effort to control deer in this Cleveland suburb,A team of professional hunters are in the process of culling 600 deer this year.The sharpshooters are set up in tree stands in residents yards with bait corn sprayers.The city has witnessed numerous protests from pro deer groups.An ordinance was pased forbidding anyone from deliberatly spooking deer that are in range of a rifleman.This controled hunt was the result of citizen outcries of damaged gardens and motor vehicle encounters.I don't have the figure that the city is paying this group to eliminate the 600 whitetail.My biggest concern as a taxpayer would be what the liability insurance is for hunters to shoot deer in a densely populated area.I hope you don't hear about this hunt as a result of a kid catching a 3030 slug at the bus stop.When the 600th deer is claimed what will be the reaction of the first motorist who hits one and screams the city was supposed to have solved the problem.Other near-by communities are looking at this type of solution.A field day for hunters could turn into a happy outing for lawyers.
Sam
 
They still have a natural predator --us. Evidently these suburban areas are finding this human predator instinct a good thing, and since they can't hire a wolf they'll settle for a hired gun.

I wonder if these people were anti-hunting, and for gun control before Bambi started eating their lawn for lunch?

I know here in Texas the population of whitetails is monitored closely and that determines the amount of hunting license tags issued each hunting season. This keeps the population at levels that the environment can sustain.

I don't hunt myself, but sometimes we need to take the place of the displaced predators to keep the system in balance.
 
[I wrote this in another thread before I copied it to here, where it seemed appropriate]

On the topic of deer.. It really puzzles me that we have so many problems (in the UK) due to high deer populations in some areas, and yet we have no deer-hunting season when ordinary people can bag some fresh venison for their freezer.

Having spent some time recently in Michigan, USA, where their whole lifestyle seems to revolve around the deer-hunting seasons (bow, and gun), I am as puzzled as my Michigan friends as to why we don't allow this over here.

Or is it just that by paying professionals to cull the deer, all that lovely wild venison is lining the pockets of a few instead of being appreciated by many?

Any comments?
Rose
 
Deer are apalling for woodland but I think I'd be a bit nervous if too many people were running around the woods with guns as an occcasional hobby.

But venison is yummy and ethically I'm much happier eating sustainable wild game, such as rabbit and deer, killed in the field by someone who knows what they are doing, than I would be some poor beef animal, hauled halfway round the country to be killed in an abatoir.

Next job for Jamie Oliver, marketing locally sourced game giving a good income to some of the kids round here (and other parts of the country) who would like the chance to stay and work in the countryside.

HB

http://guestwickpromises.blogspot.com/
 
Rose said:
[I wrote this in another thread before I copied it to here, where it seemed appropriate]

On the topic of deer.. It really puzzles me that we have so many problems (in the UK) due to high deer populations in some areas, and yet we have no deer-hunting season when ordinary people can bag some fresh venison for their freezer.

Having spent some time recently in Michigan, USA, where their whole lifestyle seems to revolve around the deer-hunting seasons (bow, and gun), I am as puzzled as my Michigan friends as to why we don't allow this over here.

Or is it just that by paying professionals to cull the deer, all that lovely wild venison is lining the pockets of a few instead of being appreciated by many?

Any comments?
Rose

Hi Rose,

All species of wild deer in the UK can be shot by anyone who has permission of the landowner, has the correct calibre rifle and sticks to the legal shooting seasons, as long as the ground is suitable for the use of a high-calibre rifle. Many estates, commercial forestry and conservation organisations employ or hire professional stalkers to cull deer. Certainly in Scotland venison can be bought directly from the Forestry Commision (for instance), it's extremely tasty and relatively cheap - few people take advantage of this however and most of the venison is exported abroad.

saluki
 
Thanks Saluki, I really thought all public hunting was illegal in England!

So where can I find correct info on rifle calibres and hunting seasons?

Am I correct in understanding that all bow-hunting is illegal here?

I done numerous web searches on deer hunting in the Uk, but only get directed to those fancy Scottish estates who lead really rich people around by the hand! LOL
Rose
 
Rose said:
Thanks Saluki, I really thought all public hunting was illegal in England!

So where can I find correct info on rifle calibres and hunting seasons?

Am I correct in understanding that all bow-hunting is illegal here?

I done numerous web searches on deer hunting in the Uk, but only get directed to those fancy Scottish estates who lead really rich people around by the hand! LOL
Rose


Hi Rose,

Smallest callibre one can legally shoot deer with in the UK is .240

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/riflescalibreland

Here's the shooting seasons:

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/shootingseasons

Two interesting websites on deer in the UK:

http://www.deer-uk.com/

http://www.bds.org.uk/

You're quite right, bow hunting is illegal in the UK.

Obtaining permission to stalk deer is often about who you know - it's available for free to many people. The British Deer Society run some excellent stalking courses, which often lead to stalking opportunities. The FC offers stalking accompanied by a ranger - it might seem as if they're having their hand held Rose but, believe me, a novice could stalk all week without getting within range of a deer! : )

saluki
 
Rose said:
Am I correct in understanding that all bow-hunting is illegal here?


Rose

I am fairly sure that this is the case, because it would be very difficult to kill a large animal like a deer with a bow without causing it uneccessary suffering. As the Deer Act prohibits shooting deer in England and Wales with a rifle of less than 1,700 ft lbs muzzle energy, it probably also prohibits other ways of killing them.
 
Funnily enough I was reading something on the BBC News website today which pointed the finger of blame for the over-population of deer to vermin levels, at (human) urban populations - it's the "townies'" fault apparently that situations like this (and the "possum plague" in parts of Australia) come to pass.

The argument goes something like this: the average urban dweller thinks all deer are just like "Bambi", and has been conned into believing the "all animals have an inalienable right to life" crap that PETA and the like spout.

So, bcause this element of society also has the most political and financial clout, the powers that be shy away from any sort of reasonable population managment, and before you know it, you've got an uncontrollable population surge, and "Bambi" becomes a rat with antlers.

Even though this over-population potentially puts these animals at a greater risk of suffering than any sensible population control would have.

Makes a lot of sense, that explanation...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this soppy, mindless "animals have rights" nonsense is about the worst thing that could ever happen to wildlife.
 
Keith Reeder said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: this soppy, mindless "animals have rights" nonsense is about the worst thing that could ever happen to wildlife.

As I'm sure you know, Keith, we need to think in terms of populations and not individuals. For example, spending money on preventing oilspills is much more use than attempting to clean up the victims. And you can save individuals by picking thm up and mollycoddling them with one hand while destroying their environment (and threatening the population) with the other. But a picture of cute dying bunny gets far more sympathy than a picture of a bulldozer knocking over a few bushes and cleaning a dying Guillemot makes people think they're doing something to save wildlife whereas putting in effective radar or improving international maritime law doesn't.
 
Keith Reeder said:
The argument goes something like this: the average urban dweller thinks all deer are just like "Bambi", and has been conned into believing the "all animals have an inalienable right to life" crap that PETA and the like spout.

.

One of the main problems is that the average urban dweller has very little knowledge of natural history.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 19 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top