Where would you move abroad as a senior with love of birds in gardens & warm climate? (1 Viewer)

[Ignatius]

I already am where we will retire. In 2022 it was the choice of TX, AZ or going to my wife's native Austria. Eventually we decided on Austria, where she has bought 3 acres of land (foreigners cannot buy agricultural land) on which we are building our retirement home. In a few weeks the first of our olive trees will arrive - we will make our own olive oil. The vegetable garden for our food is already well under way and I am building a green house. There are plenty of birds such as falcons, buzzards, hawks, black and white storks, pheasants and yesterday, when I arrived at the property, a deer had been sleeping in the tall grass - we mow some of the pasture only in autumn for ground breeding birds and pollinators/insects.
The weather here is not as extreme as it is getting to be in TX (between San Antone and Corpus Christi) as I don't do really hot any more. The winters are mild and it still rains enough. Everything is always a trade-off, but I think I have a good deal and I will be happy here. Don't understand the local lingo (some sort of western Hungarian/Burgenlandish - don't get far with the German I know), but talking to my wife and the dog is enough for me anyway.

 

[DMW]

It's quite difficult finding anywhere that meets all those requirements, as they tend to be conflicting, eg the highest biodiversity is generally in the least developed / secure places. Relatively few places have a great year-round climate.

For retirees with average means, Thailand is a pretty popular choice. It's got high biodiversity, great national parks, decent infrastructure, and high quality private health care in Bangkok. It's safe, and pretty affordable. Thais are friendly and respectful towards older people. The food is great. The winter climate is great: Summers not so much, but not terrible and it doesn't seem to suffer much from natural disasters. It's also very well-connected regionally and internationally with low cost flights.

You could rent a condo or house for a couple of months to see how you like it.

 

[jurek]

I have a friend who spends winters in Thailand and summers in Europe. Swimming in the sea every morning before breakfast in January etc.

But it turns completely different for a person who is frail and must often get a medical care. Living in Thailand is a dream for a fit 65 years old, but not for a 85 year old.

 

[halftwo]

Actually the cost of medical care is very reasonable in Thailand. And their hospitals & doctors are excellent in my experience.

 

[kb57]

I bought an apartment in southern Portugal a few years ago and am now a Portuguese resident for tax / self-employment purposes, although I still spend a fair amount of time back in UK where my partner has a property. I'm not retired quite yet, but am lucky enough to be able to work part-time from home on a freelance basis.
We have a couple of American neighbours in our apartment block - the Algarve is a popular retirement destination, with low crime rates, relatively low living costs by European standards, a warm climate - and great birding! For US and other non-EU citizens the Portuguese authorities have made it more difficult to get residence in recent years, but it is still possible if you have some money to invest and can support yourself. Fortunately I'm Irish, and my partner is Swiss (non EU but within Schengen zone)/ British, so we can come and go as we want, constrained only by my not spending too much time in UK so as to complicate tax residency.
It isn't an unequivocal paradise by any means - property prices are quite high for incomers, cripplingly high for locals on local wages - but I'd personally rather be in a stable EU democracy with a reasonably equal distribution of income and correspondingly low crime rates, than somewhere with high levels of inequality and poverty where you have to wall yourself in at night.

 

[DMW]

I bought an apartment in southern Portugal a few years ago and am now a Portuguese resident for tax / self-employment purposes, although I still spend a fair amount of time back in UK where my partner has a property. I'm not retired quite yet, but am lucky enough to be able to work part-time from home on a freelance basis.
We have a couple of American neighbours in our apartment block - the Algarve is a popular retirement destination, with low crime rates, relatively low living costs by European standards, a warm climate - and great birding! For US and other non-EU citizens the Portuguese authorities have made it more difficult to get residence in recent years, but it is still possible if you have some money to invest and can support yourself. Fortunately I'm Irish, and my partner is Swiss (non EU but within Schengen zone)/ British, so we can come and go as we want, constrained only by my not spending too much time in UK so as to complicate tax residency.
It isn't an unequivocal paradise by any means - property prices are quite high for incomers, cripplingly high for locals on local wages - but I'd personally rather be in a stable EU democracy with a reasonably equal distribution of income and correspondingly low crime rates, than somewhere with high levels of inequality and poverty where you have to wall yourself in at night.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis, but I think it's important to understand that the EU isn't immune from "events". Remember when Cyprus decided to steal 47.5% of uninsured bank deposits in response to the 2012 financial crisis? Spain in considering introducing a law prohibiting sale or rent of properties with lower energy efficiency ratings (a large % of the current housing stock).
I'd say there's an argument to be made that ASEAN nations are a better bet for stability and low crime than most of Europe in the next few decades.

 

[kb57]

I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis, but I think it's important to understand that the EU isn't immune from "events". Remember when Cyprus decided to steal 47.5% of uninsured bank deposits in response to the 2012 financial crisis? Spain in considering introducing a law prohibiting sale or rent of properties with lower energy efficiency ratings (a large % of the current housing stock).
I'd say there's an argument to be made that ASEAN nations are a better bet for stability and low crime than most of Europe in the next few decades.

I was mostly talking specifically about Portugal, which I believe has a significantly lower crime rate than Spain, and is ranked as one of the safest countries to live in or visit in the world. I believe this also includes metrics potentially important to the OP like how safe you feel walking alone at night.
Portugal is perhaps also a little less prone than Spain to enacting hugely consequential laws that impact on its desirability as a place to live. I'm maybe more optimistic than yourself about the prospects of the EU more generally in the coming decades, although obviously it is facing its challenges.
Unless you count a 5-hour layover in Bangkok airport almost 40 year ago, I have no experience of Thailand, so can't comment on its desirability as a retirement destination - however from comments on this thread it's clearly somewhere the OP could give serious consideration to.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis, but I think it's important to understand that the EU isn't immune from "events". Remember when Cyprus decided to steal 47.5% of uninsured bank deposits in response to the 2012 financial crisis? Spain in considering introducing a law prohibiting sale or rent of properties with lower energy efficiency ratings (a large % of the current housing stock).
I'd say there's an argument to be made that ASEAN nations are a better bet for stability and low crime than most of Europe in the next few decades.

That was just before we came here but was not Cyprus as such, rather the Bank of Cyprus and it was a percentage levied against those who held balances in excess of 100,000 Euros or so I was told. The result of this is that all the ex-pats I know, now refuse to hold more than 1K Euros in their BoC accounts.

We rented a house when we first came here and our then landlord lost over 3million.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I have a friend who spends winters in Thailand and summers in Europe. Swimming in the sea every morning before breakfast in January etc.

But it turns completely different for a person who is frail and must often get a medical care. Living in Thailand is a dream for a fit 65 years old, but not for a 85 year old.

The Thai Baht became extremely strong against Sterling, added to year on year price rises and Thailand is no longer the cheap, destination that it once was with a good number of Brits leaving due to their pensions losing value there.

Select 'All' and the downward trend is obvious.

British Pound / Thai Baht Historical Reference Rates from Bank of England for 2005

A historical database of the daily reference rates recorded by the Bank of England in 2005.

www.poundsterlinglive.com

 

[Andy Adcock]

I was mostly talking specifically about Portugal, which I believe has a significantly lower crime rate than Spain, and is ranked as one of the safest countries to live in or visit in the world. I believe this also includes metrics potentially important to the OP like how safe you feel walking alone at night.
laws that impact on its desirability as a place to live. I'm maybe more optimistic than yourself about the prospects of the EU more generally in the coming decades, although obviously it is facing its challenges.Portugal is perhaps also a little less prone than Spain to enacting hugely consequential
Unless you count a 5-hour layover in Bangkok airport almost 40 year ago, I have no experience of Thailand, so can't comment on its desirability as a retirement destination - however from comments on this thread it's clearly somewhere the OP could give serious consideration to.

Many places are now making it harder for non EU citizens to reside. Portugal, as with the rest of the EU has discontinued to so called 'Golden visa' and Spain has just implemented a 100% purchase tax on non EU citizens who buy property there, effectively, doubling the price of any property.

 

[kb57]

Many places are now making it harder for non EU citizens to reside. Portugal, as with the rest of the EU has discontinued to so called 'Golden visa' and Spain has just implemented a 100% purchase tax on non EU citizens who buy property there, effectively, doubling the price of any property.

Agree it has got more difficult - I was just speaking from personal experience of meeting a few US citizen neighbours who have managed it, but I don't know if they've been here from before the golden visa was abolished or made more difficult to acquire. My partner follows an Instagram post from a UK citizen family who moved to Portugal recently, and they managed to gain residence through having a job and sufficient funds to support themselves. Given that residence certificates are issued at a local level here it may depend on where you want to move to.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Agree it has got more difficult - I was just speaking from personal experience of meeting a few US citizen neighbours who have managed it, but I don't know if they've been here from before the golden visa was abolished or made more difficult to acquire. My partner follows an Instagram post from a UK citizen family who moved to Portugal recently, and they managed to gain residence through having a job and sufficient funds to support themselves. Given that residence certificates are issued at a local level here it may depend on where you want to move to.

That's the same basis upon which we reside in Cyprus and it's not a permanent right. After five years we can apply for citizenship which has a language requirement to it (as it should) but I won't bother, I'm too old for it to make a difference but my wife and daughter aren't, so they will go for it.

 

[lmans66]

I would move to Ecuador....the birding is fantastic with over 3500 species(EDIT to 1722) in the size of the state of Nevada relatively..... Prices are relatively cheap and while you have some things to look out (your senses are perked more in safety and health), it is very livable. My daughter lives in Australia and the prices are too high for housing and rents are out of control. Beautiful country with fantastic people though.

 

[lmans66]

I researched such options myself a few years ago. It is fun to think about moving to the tropics, but I think practically speaking for a solo older (and I presume retired) American, by far the best option is going to be staying in the country.

Unless you are a multimillionaire and can afford steep entry fees, pretty much all developed countries like Australia or New Zealand aren't going to let you move there permanently when you won't be contributing anything substantial to the economy. Plus New Zealand is a great place to visit, but after a couple of weeks of traveling, you will have seen almost all the birds in the country, so not a ton of variety to keep you entertained if that is what you're looking for.

Developing countries like Costa Rica and Panama you've already visited and would be easier to get into, but I think you are rightly concerned about safety and quality of medical care. Manageable for a couple who would have someone else to help them in the event of an emergency, perhaps, but really too risky for a solo person I think. I've also read that, similar to Ecuador, Costa Rica has been invaded by drug cartels of late, who are starting to start up business there.

You don't say where you are currently located in the U.S., but I personally decided where I was already located – the mid-Atlantic part of the U.S. (Delaware, Virginia, New Jersey, Maryland), offers the best for me. Mild winters, summers can be hot but nothing like Arizona or Florida, no major risk of natural disasters (at least if you don't live right on the ocean) lots of birds, especially during migration. Tropical birds easy to see on visits to other countries.

I used to live in South Jersey and can echo this,.... Now, Arizona is not that bad..... if you live in Phoenix area it is the pit of the world with people and traffic but otherwise there are locales much better. But again, south Jersey is just fine.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I would move to Ecuador....the birding is fantastic with over 3500 species in the size of the state of Nevada relatively..... Prices are relatively cheap and while you have some things to look out (your senses are perked more in safety and health), it is very livable. My daughter lives in Australia and the prices are too high for housing and rents are out of control. Beautiful country with fantastic people though.

That is maybe doubling the Ecuador bird list?

All the best

Paul

 

[Andy Adcock]

That is maybe doubling the Ecuador bird list?

All the best

Paul

Indeed, Colombia with c1900 tops the table.

 

[lmans66]

Yeah...perhaps I did add a bit to the list ..... I guess it just seems like 3500.

 

[Steve Babbs]

I was last in Thailand in 2018, so in a time the Pound/Baht rate was similar to now, when Thailand was still stupidly cheap for anyone from the UK probably even cheaper, comparatively, then when I was there in 1993.

Cost of living in Thailand compared to United Kingdom

Cost of living in Thailand compared to United Kingdom. We provide several metrics to compare the cost of living including cost of groceries, transportation, and more.

www.mylifeelsewhere.com

The US is generally more expensive than the UK so Thailand would seem even cheaper.

I could never get my head around the language and I wouldn't feel comfortable moving somewhere where I couldn't speak the local language. I do intend to spend a fair few winters in SE Asia when I retire though.

 

[PYRTLE]

but I won't bother, I'm too old for it to make a difference

You're younger than me..........dýo býres parakaló

 

[Montereyman]

Medical care for the people of Costa Rica is far better than for the great majority of Americans, especially those living in rural areas or in red states. Check the maternal mortality rates where in the USA has a rate 10 times higher than Australia.

Check also access to medical care by public transit (virtually impossible in much of the USA) and not needing to fly. I had a procedure done in Essen Germany in 2007 as a U.S. citizen and paid 400 euros. For a German citizen there would have been no cost. I had the same procedure done months later in California and the cost was more than $14,000. In California a simple ER visit for chest pains cost me $3,500 and all I received was a single aspirin tablet.

People living in other countries have no idea how bad the situation is in the United States or how more than half the hospitals have shut down in the past 10 years, never to reopen.

There is also the quality of life during ones remaining years and places like Costa Rica with organic produce and flower 12 months of the year and abundant wildlife and low housing costs and gentle climate are worth seriously considering. As with anywhere it would be best to spend a few months there to better appreciate any challenges.

Language is another factor and there are many British widows living in isolation in Spain, having relied on their husbands to speak Spanish with the locals and when these men died their widows retreated indoors.