Why the terrible minimum focus distance on the ELs? (2 Viewers)

[tenex]

To state the obvious, I seldom need a binocular for a bird within 11ft myself. It's a question of what else you may like to see outdoors, and how many bins you like to carry.

 

[Aquaplas]

As a owner of the new EL Legend 8,5x42 without the bear Fokus I can say there is a also a advantage. The Fokus is extreme precise and smooth. Better than most of my other alphas. I think it has to do with the reduced near Fokus.
But yes, when I look at Dragonfly’s my NL Pure or Victory SF is much more Comfort. But I rare use ist.
The new 8,5x42 is a great Bino from the Optical side, and the 8.5 magnification is something special. It’s a real allround bino.

 

[dorubird]

We are talking about binoculars that cost over 2000 euros!?! With this price and with the prestige of this brand, it is not at all exaggerated that our expectations to be in line, and to expect that focus wheel to be perfect regardless of any close focus distance, or regardless of any technical aspects. These are petty engineering excuses incompatible to top binoculars

 

[Aquaplas]

We are talking about binoculars that cost over 2000 euros!?! With this price and with the prestige of this brand, it is not at all exaggerated that our expectations to be in line, and to expect that focus wheel to be perfect regardless of any close focus distance, or regardless of any technical aspects. These are petty engineering excuses incompatible to top binoculars

You are talking about the optimum. But my experience with all alpha brands and models is completely different. I think it is physically that a Bino with less near Fokus is easier to produce in Series with hold the focus precision and smotheness well. A Eception in my experience is the Zeiss SF in black. This is also perfekt.

 

[Paultricounty]

I can’t

We are talking about binoculars that cost over 2000 euros!?! With this price and with the prestige of this brand, it is not at all exaggerated that our expectations to be in line, and to expect that focus wheel to be perfect regardless of any close focus distance, or regardless of any technical aspects. These are petty engineering excuses incompatible to top binoculars

I can’t agree more. If we’re paying for the best of the best we want it to be the best in all areas. I’ve had issues , or should I say less than stellar focus performance on quite a few samples of the premium (alphas) options. I’ve used over a dozen EL’s and could point out two that needed service. A few others that had some stiction , but 90% were excellent. Same with Leica UV’s with more examples of stiction. The newer + models are better and more consistent.

Paul

 

[Paultricounty]

You are talking about the optimum. But my experience with all alpha brands and models is completely different. I think it is physically that a Bino with less near Fokus is easier to produce in Series with hold the focus precision and smotheness well. A Eception in my experience is the Zeiss SF in black. This is also perfekt.

It’s possible this has more to do with unit variation than close focus design. I’ve used quite a few of both of the EL’s versions and can say confidently I’ve seen more smooth pre-legend models.

Paul

 

[tenex]

As a owner of the new EL Legend 8,5x42 without the bear Fokus I can say there is a also a advantage. The Fokus is extreme precise and smooth. Better than most of my other alphas. I think it has to do with the reduced near Fokus.

At least in the case of SLC 42, the loss of close focus led to slower travel in the more distant focus range, which few birders would consider advantageous. I strongly suspect the same thing would have happened to EL as it's essentially the same modification.

 

[Paultricounty]

At least in the case of SLC 42, the loss of close focus led to slower travel in the more distant focus range, which few birders would consider advantageous. I strongly suspect the same thing would have happened to EL as it's essentially the same modification.

I’m going to see if I can get a few pre and post SLC and EL’s and play around a bit. This thread has made me curious. Not having the newer EL version on hand at the moment , when you say the focuser might np e slower on the post short focus models , are you saying there are more revolutions from close focus to infinity? I would’ve thought the opposite. I’m also curious to see if there is a focus ratio difference, meaning a larger focus travel from close to 30 feet, and from 30 feet to infinity. I can’t say It was something I noticed when using different versions. My thinking was the only difference would be in travel from close to 30 feet, from there everything being the same.

 

[Tringa45]

At least in the case of SLC 42, the loss of close focus led to slower travel in the more distant focus range, which few birders would consider advantageous. I strongly suspect the same thing would have happened to EL as it's essentially the same modification.

I’m going to see if I can get a few pre and post SLC and EL’s and play around a bit. This thread has made me curious. Not having the newer EL version on hand at the moment , when you say the focuser might np e slower on the post short focus models , are you saying there are more revolutions from close focus to infinity? I would’ve thought the opposite. I’m also curious to see if there is a focus ratio difference, meaning a larger focus travel from close to 30 feet, and from 30 feet to infinity. I can’t say It was something I noticed when using different versions. My thinking was the only difference would be in travel from close to 30 feet, from there everything being the same.

Although there are large differences in focussing speed between different binoculars, I believe all available binoculars have linear focus. i.e. constant number of degrees of focus rotation per dioptre.
There have been attempts in the past to provide variable focus (Minox, Brunton?) but this could involve some mechanical complexity or reliability problems.
Here is a thread with some measurements I performed 10 years ago: Focus Overtravel (compatibility for the near-sighted) It brings back some unpleasant memories of a troll (ON), who has thankfully moved on to new pastures.
It would be interesting if anyone could conduct these measurements for SLCs and EL Classics etc.

Regards,
John

 

[tenex]

when you say the focuser might np e slower on the post short focus models , are you saying there are more revolutions from close focus to infinity? I would’ve thought the opposite

Not exactly, more like more revolutions between typical (more distant) settings. I've never had both at hand to compare, but I like the focus speed on my SLC HD (which is 10x btw) while there do seem to be complaints about slow focus from (birding) owners of the later model. Considering how much travel is involved in close focus, I think that compressed the more distant range (given practical limitations on screw length etc) on the original model vs the later. I suppose they could have done it differently though. Looking forward to your tests.

 

[Tringa45]

Any binocular will have exactly the same focus rotation between 5 m and 10 m as between 10 m and infinity.
With a 10x binocular both ranges would be 10 dioptres of focus travel and with an 8x binocular 6,4 dioptres.
This can be easily confirmed by taping a paper millimetre scale to the focusser.

John