Would you help me to choose a decent pair of binoculars at a mid-low price? (1 Viewer)

[groucho80]

Hi!

First of all, pardon me for my English, I'm from Italy and I'll try to explain at my best |=)|

Would you help me to choose a decent pair of binoculars at a mid-low price? I have for a long time serched for a model with a decent quality but fairly cheap... I need them for walking and activities in the nature, generally, so I'd like them quite small and lightweight; because I wear glasses, I need also a good eye relief.

I can spend at most 100-130 euros (around 160-170 dollars) including shipping... I've had a bad experience with a pair of Celestron Outland 8x25 that I sent back. Of course, I know that models within this range of price will be all Chinese-made, but I hope to get something fully working.

I'm in doubt among a pair of models with roof prisms (which could allow a better quality at low price) and some with roof prisms, all fully multi-coated but with or without phase correction. I'd prefer 8x32, but also some 8x25 could be ok...

Among porros, I found:

- Pentax 8x25 UCF X II (or UCF WP, the water-proof version), which have a non very long eye-relief, yet (15 mm)... On Amazon they cost around 80 euros;

- Some porro models by Opticron (Vega 8x25, Taiga 8x25 and HR 8x26), with a longer eye-relief of 17-18 mm and a cost from about 60 to about 110 euros (without shipping);


Among roofs:

- Praktica/Pentacon 8x32 WPR, which have 16 mm eye-relief and are fully multi coated but no phase correction... A bit bigger and heavy, but as long as it seems that they are the same as Bynolyt Sparrow, they should be not bad (according to Optyczne.pl)... Around 75 euros on Amazon;

- Braun Trekking 8x32, also them FMC but not PC and also them with 16 mm eye-relief... They are smaller and lighter, and on Best Binoculars Review have a good review and cost around 105-110 euros;

- Barr & Stroud Sierra 8x32, FMC and PC, with a longer eye-relief of 17.8 mm but a bit heavier (596 g.). Also they have a good review on Best Binoculars Review and cost around 100 euros (120 with shipping);

- Ts Optics Adventure 8x32, that seem to be the same as Barr & Stroud but re-branded. Price 109 + shipping;

- Bauer Outdoor 8x32, FMC and PC and lighter and smaller, with an eye-relief of 17 mm. About them I couldn't find more information than what says the site that sells them (Alan Rhone) that refers "phase correction coating, dielectric coating", but they are not even present on the Bauer site. On the net some say that they are similar to Zen Ray but re-branded. Price around 120 euros (130 with shipping to Italy).

What do you think about them? Anyone has got or has tried one of them?
Any help or tip will be welcome, I'd like to have some opinion from expert people before I buy it!

Thanks a lot! :hi:

 

[FrankD]

I can't help you with any of those models as they sound fairly specific to your country/region. If you were in the US the Sightron 8x32 SII would fit your criteria perfectly...including price. Sadly with whatever duties, etc.. would be added on to the price it would probably push it above your suggested price point.

 

[typo]

Ho Groucho,

I've only seen the B&S Sierra from your list I've afraid. It's pretty good for the money. The centre field performance is very sharp as I remember. I've seen positive reports on the Opticron Taiga. Of the reverse porros I've tried, the Olympus PCI 8x25 I thought the best, but it's non waterproof, and though OK with my close fitting glasses was not generous on ER. The Nikon Travelite EX would be my choice of the waterproof reverse porros. The price varies wildly, but can be found in the UK for less than 100 Euro. There is a positive report on the Hawke Frontier PC 8x25 which again can be found in your price range.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=217398&highlight=Hawke+8x25

Good luck,

David

 

[groucho80]

Thank you very much guys!

@ FrankD: actually the model you suggested seems to be not available in Europe, and shipping from USA would be very expensive!

@ typo: the Sierra is interesting, in fact... it's possible that I'll go for those, maybe! Hawke seem to be (considering some results in the net) more expensive, instead, at least the 8x32.
I noticed also the Olympus PCI 8x25, but they are not FMC and above all have a quite short eye relief... Maybe Opticron Vega could be an interesting (and low-priced) alternative...

Bye!:hi:

 

[mayoayo]

The Kowa YF 8x30 sells in that price range,shipped within the european community ..that binocular ,or its sibling the 6x30,are sold with many other brand names,..Celestron and Opticron make versions..,the Vortex Raptor.. ,the original Leupolds yosemite..you name it, and is a modern classic for inexpensive ,rugged and quality (decent )optics

 

[brocknroller]

Well, it looks like my brother Groucho made like a banana and split before I could give him my usual disclaimer about optics companies' ER specs vs. useable ER.

But JIC he comes back....

Usually, companies measure ER from the top lens to the focal point, but the lens recession varies and is almost always more than 1mm (except the FLs, which according to one BF member have only 1mm recession - thick eyeglass wearers beware!).

Figure btwn 2-3mm lens recession (or greater for some bins - see Edz's specs on Cloudy Nights for useable ER numbers on various bins) plus 1 to 3mm thickness for the eyecup, and you might fall below the minimum ER needed even if the listed specs seem to have ample ER.

Then there are your eyeglasses and facial features to consider. If your glasses don't sit close to your eyes or if your eyes are deep set, you will need additional useable ER, as illustrated by the attached photo.

Ciao!
Chico

 

[Torview]

The Opticron Oregon LE WP 8X32 is a gem.

Weighs 515gms, 8.1 deg FOV. close focus 1.8m, 15mm eye relief hence LE (long eye relief)in the name, sells under £99.

I haven`t used a better roof under £100.

http://www.opticron.co.uk/Pages/oregon_le.htm

 

[groucho80]

Usually, companies measure ER from the top lens to the focal point, but the lens recession varies and is almost always more than 1mm (except the FLs, which according to one BF member have only 1mm recession - thick eyeglass wearers beware!).

Figure btwn 2-3mm lens recession (or greater for some bins - see Edz's specs on Cloudy Nights for useable ER numbers on various bins) plus 1 to 3mm thickness for the eyecup, and you might fall below the minimum ER needed even if the listed specs seem to have ample ER.

Then there are your eyeglasses and facial features to consider. If your glasses don't sit close to your eyes or if your eyes are deep set, you will need additional useable ER, as illustrated by the attached photo.

I'm afraid I didn't get completely the meaning... So in some cases the eye relief may not be the one specified because the lenses are positioned in different ways? I tried to find the specs you said on Cloudy Nights but I didn't... Could you please give me the link if you know it? |=)|

unfortunately, it's not so easy to find a shop with a good stock to try here in Rome... It would be easier!

 

[brocknroller]

I'm afraid I didn't get completely the meaning... So in some cases the eye relief may not be the one specified because the lenses are positioned in different ways? I tried to find the specs you said on Cloudy Nights but I didn't... Could you please give me the link if you know it? |=)|

unfortunately, it's not so easy to find a shop with a good stock to try here in Rome... It would be easier!

Groucho,

Manufacturers usually list the ER as measured from the top lens of the EP to the focal point where it focuses. See the illustration and explanation on this Website.

http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/how_to/guide/binoculars/basic/basic_07.htm

However, most manufacturers set the top lens 2 to 3 mm below the top of the EP housing so there's some clearance for the curved lenses of eyeglasses; otherwise, your eyeglasses could scratch the EP lenses, depending on their thickness and curvature.

So let's say a bin is advertised with an ER of 18mm, you have to deduct 2 to 3 mm for the lens recession to get the useable ER for eyeglass wearers.

So that gets you down to 16 to 15mm of useable ER for your eyeglasses.

That's for a bin with rubber fold down eyecups. With twist ups, it depends on how close the eyecups are to the EP housing. Some actually come down to the same height as the housing, but in my experience, they usually protrude above the housing 1 to 3mm.

So you have to deduct 1 to 3mm more from the 16 to 15mm left after deducting the lens recession, and now you're left with anywhere from 15mm to 12mm.

So you can't go by the listed ER from the manufacturer if you wear glasses.

Now if that weren't complicated enough, how close your eyeglasses set on your face (the illustration above) and how deep set your eyes might also require additional ER. In my case, I need about 22mm of listed ER in order for me to end up with enough ER for my eyeglasses/facial features.

And that's assuming the usual number of deductions, no very deeply recessed EP lenses like on some Fujinon porros such as the 8x30 FMTR-SX. Another deeply recessed EP lens was the 8x42 Orion Vista (listed was 18mm, useable was only 11mm, according to Edz).

What's so bad about this? If you look at the graphics on the Website linked above, you'll see short ER bins vignette the FOV. You end up seeing less FOV than someone w/out glasses would see. Not terrible if you start out with a really wide FOV like the 8x30 EII (13.5mm ER but 8.8* FOV), but bad if the ER is really short or if the FOV is narrow).

Here's the link to one of Edz' lists of measured ER for bins. You can also find more measured ER figures in his technical reports.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1908087/page/223/view/collapsed/sb/6/o/all

Brock

 

[groucho80]

Thank you very much Brock, you have been very clear
Unfortunately this thing complicates the situation further, because it seems to be very difficult to find this information (usable ER) on the models I have chosen without trying them... |8(|
Maybe the best could be the Barr & Stroud Sierra, that have a 17.8 mm ER and (maybe) also subctracting 2-3 mm could remain "usable"...

 

[ceasar]

A generally safe, but not infallible, rule is that when all things are equal get the binocular with the longer eye relief.

Bob

 

[groucho80]

Thanks caesar!
It seems like the winner is BS Sierra 8x32...
I'm just still in doubt with a porro (the Pentax I think, because it's the only one that I could get at less cost) because maybe even if a bit smaller (25 mm) could be of better quality, and also with the Praktica 8x32 WP, that at a lower price seems to have good reviews, at least the versione re-branded by Bynolyt (even if not phase-corrected)...

Thank you guys!

 

[groucho80]

towards 8x42

Hi guys :hi:
I saw some 8x42 models and I realized that often the dimensions between 8x32 and 8x42 are not so different...
So I'll probably go for them. I tried the Vixen Atrek 8x42: that have good eye relief (20 mm) but didn't impressed me much... Moreover they are not phase-corrected and the price is quite high; I tried also the Ascot 10x50 (porro), that were very good and even if the ER was 18, they offered optimal vision too...
I tried also the Konus Emperor 8x42, that were not bad (even though I don't like this brand) but with too little eye relief so that with glasses on I had a restricted FOV.

I like two models, that I unfortunately can't try because they are unavailable in Italy: Barr & Stroud Sierra 8x42 and Opticron Trailfinder II 8x42.
The Sierra are a bit more expensive, but are smaller and lighter (and also nicer!!!); they have better FOV but the problem is that they have less eye relief (17,8 mm) and I fear that it is not enough...
The Trailfinder II are cheaper, a bit bigger and quite heavier, but have a 21 mm ER that I think must be surely enough! I like them a bit less and the doubt is whether they can be of lower quality...

Any suggestion? |=)|

 

[groucho80]

In the end, I bought BS Sierra 8x42.
There were some problems with on line purchase, but they are very good binoculars for the money, very cute also.
Maybe I'll write a brief review, I think they are very good for someone who looks for a cheap pair! :t:

 

[typo]

Glad you are happy with the Sierra.

Happy birding.

David

 

[groucho80]

Glad you are happy with the Sierra.

Happy birding.

David

thank you David!