Young viviparous lizard? (1 Viewer)

[IamFof]

On Sunday I was at the Tregeseal Stone Circle, West Cornwall, helping to clear the encroaching vegetation.
I spotted this little chappie and a couple of mature viviparous lizards (Zootoca vivipara) and presumed it was a juvenile BUT checking online indicates juvenile Z. vivipara are very dark in colour. This is definately NOT dark, so is it just a colour variant or what?
The ventral surface had a prominant orange stripe, but couldn't get a pic. It was too camera shy )).


TIA
Fof

 

[Ivydwg]

Looks like a juv smooth newt to me

 

[IamFof]

Thanks, ivydwg
Hmm. Interesting idea.
There is a seasonal body of water, approximately 400m away.
The ventral surface of the individual, though had a prominant orange stripe, but NO spots, and the dorsal markings look wrong, based on Google images.

 

[Ivydwg]

Thanks, ivydwg
Hmm. Interesting idea.
There is a seasonal body of water, approximately 400m away.
The ventral surface of the individual, though had a prominant orange stripe, but NO spots, and the dorsal markings look wrong, based on Google images.

I am going off 15 years plus of surveying for newts! Could be a palmate newt. Don't know how common they are in Cornwall.

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

Certainly a newt; I think Palmate is more abundant in Cornwall than Smooth.

 

[IamFof]

Ivydwg
I don't mean to dismiss your suggestion, far from it.
Just supplying some additional data.
How variable are the ventral spots in juvenile smooths?
I did check out palmates, but again the dorsal patterns looked wrong.
The actual location was a mound at approx 260m ASL, heavily covered with:
Bracken (Pteridium aquilinum)
Western gorse (Ulex gallii)
Bramble (Rubus fruticosus)
Tormentil (Potentilla erecta)
and what I call a tussock grass (I can't handle grasses)

Fof

 

[IamFof]

Welsh Peregrine. Thanks for your i/p.
So a newt, rather than a lizard. As I also spotted a couple of adult viviparous, I assumed viviparous as a starting point.
One day i will learn NEVER assume anything - 99.999% of the time my assumptions are wrong.

Fof

 

[Ivydwg]

Looking at the Herpetofauna workers manual it would most likely be a palmate newt, as the vertebral stripe runs from the base on the neck and beyond the pelvic girdle.

 

[Torchepot]

Someone recently sent me this photo asking me the same thing. At the time I thought it might be a young smooth newt, based partly on locality.
Pleasley Vale - Derbyshire/Leicestershire border.

 

[IamFof]

So a juvenile Palmate.

Thanks, guys.