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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Zeiss SFL comparisons with older models (1 Viewer)

Need to check about the sharpness statement. But it's clear that Lotutec came independently and much earlier than the change of the coating color. Of my three x42 FLs with purplish coating only the first one I got does not have Lotutec.
Note I did say "immediately" sharp - I was purposeful - I think the SFL pops more vs the early FLs, a little less than later FLs....sort of the connection between sharpness and contrast.

I do wonder if there were even more coating versions on the FL. Mine were a very early pair; I wonder if there was a later purple/green. The color on mine was not that strong.
 
Thanks for sharing your impressions Swissboy and glad you found a binocular you like so much. It's not easy for a binocular to impress in dull grey conditions; I can see why Leica went for a more colour saturated image in their binoculars because those kinds of dull overcast dreary days all too common in winter in Europe seem to leach all the colour away from whatever you are looking at. When I tried the SFL at Birdfair conditions were the exact opposite - a very sunny and hot August day with the light being almost too harsh at midday; testing sharpness at distance was made very difficult by heat haze. I didn't spend very long with them but my main impression was that the colour rendition seemed a little more natural than the Conquest HD (which are an excellent product in themselves). I thought Zeiss seemed to do a good job of delivering something in between the Conquest HD and the SF. They also recalled the compact build of the old Dialyt series which were very popular back in the day.
 
Interesting, our 10x32 #46346xx still has purple coatings. We must be very close to establishing where the change occurred, and surely Gary could associate a date with that. I'm glad to have this version, as the colors are lovely and here in the generally sunny West I have no need of heightened contrast. (SFLs seemed excessive.)
So let's narrow this down further. Mine (8x32) with reddish-orange coating has # 463489x. That suggests a change between 4634...600 and ....890.
 
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I do wonder if there were even more coating versions on the FL. Mine were a very early pair; I wonder if there was a later purple/green. The color on mine was not that strong.
That is definitely correct. I placed my three purple x42 models into the sun, upside down for the sun to shine on to the objectives. And the views behind a three-layered window glass provided interesting results. I concentrated on the bright small spot of the sun itself. Two models (8x & 10x) had a purple spot of different intensity, and the 7x had three spots (see attachment), one intensive purple, then a whitish one and finally a intensively bluish one. I tried to photograph them but the pictures don't quite satisfy. Nevertheless one can still get an idea of the differences. The non-lotutec 8x model seemed to be the most neutral one in its purple spot. The first attachment shows the 7x FL with the three different spots. The second picture shows all three FL models with the "three-spot" 7x on the left.
 

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After reading this I am curious to go see my former 10x32FL and check the coating color. If memory serves me right the bino is from 2014.

On another note the SFL 8x30 is in the local bino shop as a demo unit. Will check it out today. :)
 
After reading this I am curious to go see my former 10x32FL and check the coating color. If memory serves me right the bino is from 2014.

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My first x42 FL (8x) dates from 2005. The other ones were much later bought used. They were both in top condition and came with Lotutec. So they are obviously much more recent.

Here is another attempt to show the differences. This time, the picture was done outside in dizzy sunlight. The sequence is as in post #25, from the bottom up 7x, 8x and 10x. The angle with respect to the sun is not the same for the three types. So it's more the basic color that should be compared, not the brightness. The 10x is the darkest, most intensive purple, whereas the 8x is the least intensive, most neutral, and the 7x comes with a more reddish component but still clearly purple, without the orange-red of later coatings.
 

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My wife (Swissboy's Doris :LOL:) and I had a chance today to evaluate all four versions of the new Zeiss SFL, and comparing them with our older models we want to replace. That is my wife's Victory I 10x40 dating from 2001, as well as my own FL 8x32 (with Lotutec) that I bought just a short time before Zeiss stopped producing it. Today was a somewhat dreary overcast day. So maybe the observed differences were particularly pronounced. When I tried a 8x30 SFL, I simply did not believe what I saw at first. The picture was so bright! Same with the 10x30 model. The x40 versions were about the same, not particulary brighter. Over all, if anything, the SFLs make colors seem too bright, the views were as if someone had turned on the light. I wonder how they fare in full sun. But here now, it was absolutely mindblowing to me. My FL 8x32 gave an impression as if it were a very old glass, I was truly shocked. This 8x32 FL is very well kept and not all that much used, certainly no signs of dirt or dust.

Also, the new SFLs feel extremely comfortable in the hands, and the relatively low or forward position of the focuser was never an issue. I had been a bit concerned at first. The focus was also butter-smooth, unlike on a small Swaro model the dealer had on display as well. (I don't recall the model as I was not interested anyway.) The wide FOV was also very nice, definitely less tunnel impression than in the 8x32 FL. And that model is not known for a particularly narrow FOV. It may be the extra brightness that hightens the impression.

In a way, I expexted my wife to go for the x40 models, with just a question whether she would stick to the 10x version as on her old Victory I she had been happy with for close to 22 years. But while the 10x magnification still suited her better, she quickly decided to order the x30 model as the weight difference is quite noticeable. There is no need for me to already make a decision, so it is still open whether I'll take a 10x30 or a 8x30 one. At the moment, it looks like the x30 models will become available in spring, hopefully March or April according to the dealer. If nothing else, I can already foresee a highly increased use of this x30 glass for me. The convenient close focus does the rest for this.
Interesting observation on the "very old glass" FL 8x32. Arthur, did you read this? :)

Most interesting to me is you finding the Zeiss greaseless focuser to be "buttery smooth," which is how I have (and how others have) described the focuser on the Nikon EDGs. One reviewer called the SFL's focuser fast, very fast (which he liked) and another initially called it stiff, but it apparently later loosened up.

Focus speed and stickion have always been issues for me with Zeiss and Swarovski focusers. Zeiss focusers always seem to be too loose and cause me to overshoot the bird and give the impression of very shallow depth of field. Swaro focusers tend to turn loose to the left and hard (or even sticky) to the right. When I'm birding, I want to focus on the bird, not the focuser.

But everything else I've read about the SFLs so far has been very good. Seems like Zeiss has listened to its customers to "Give the People What They Want." Except me. Give me a greased focuser! I'm a birder, not a hunter. I don't care if the focuser gets stiff below freezing, because if it's below freezing I'm in the house reading Birdforum. :)

Brock
 
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Most interesting to me is you finding the Zeiss greaseless focuser to be "buttery smooth," which is how I have (and how others have) described the focuser on the Nikon EDGs. One reviewer called the SFL's focuser fast, very fast (which he liked) and another initially called it stiff, but it apparently later loosened up.

Focus speed and stickion have always been issues for me with Zeiss and Swarovski focusers. Zeiss focusers always seem to be too loose and cause me to overshoot the bird and give the impression of very shallow depth of field. Swaro focusers tend to turn loose to the left and hard (or even sticky) to the right. When I'm birding, I want to focus on the bird, not the focuser.

I've had 3 FLs, an SF and an SFL, and have always found the focus wheels to turn smoothly, with equal resistance in both directions, but the resistance has varied a lot. The SFs focus wheel turns quite easily, almost too easily. Two of the FLs were fine, one was so stiff as to be unusable in the field. Sent it to Zeiss and it came back just fine. My 8x SFLs were fairly stiff and stayed that way. As of this morning they are at Zeiss for repair.

My opinion of the Swaro focusing jibes with yours, stiffer in one direction than the other. Also with some pairs the resistance changes a bit through the same direction. Comparison with the various Zeiss bins makes it more noticeable.
 
As a long term user of the FL8x32 as well as the FL10x32 I am happy to say the SFL8x30 does not disappoint.

I have one on order now, it only took a brief stint with the demo unit to seal the deal - to me it is the successor to the FL8x32.
The SFL 8x30 works better for me with glasses than the FL 8x32 did and the imaging is top notch.

Before getting glasses the FL 8x32 was the perfect format and performance package for me over the years.

I think the 8x30 is about as much smaller than my SFL 8x40 as I would want it. Not as stylish as the Leica Ultravid or the Swaros but I have always been a sucker for plain jane Zeiss. :)
 

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Bill Atwood: sorry to hear about your SFL focuser!

Mine works a charm (SFL 8x40) and has stayed that way since I got it.

Except for one focuser feeling a bit dry all four of my former FL's have worked great over the years. (Two 8x32's and two 10x32's).

Scratch that - now that I think about it the last FL 10x32 was bought new and had a semi stuck focuser right out of the box. It took a month and a half at Zeiss before it was serviced and returned and it was never as good as the other three.

Stuck eye cup on one of them - but I did solve that for my friend by unscrewing and reattaching it. He had it stuck for a few years apparently (!) which I feel very bad about. I could have fixed it way back - but he never asked me about it so I just didn't know...

The last 8x32 FL I tried was on a whim and by chance, found a used pair and the focuser was great as well as the general condition but I did realize the FL are no longer for me with glasses on.

I will definitely ask to try a few different SFL 8x30´s once they have them in stock. The one I tried today was a tiny bit stiffer than my unit.
 
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Bill Atwood: sorry to hear about your SFL focuser!

As long as it comes back improved I'll be happy. This is the third new Zeiss bin I've sent in for focus wheel issues. The first two were fixed quickly at the cost of shipping. Hopefully the third time is the same. It's definitely suboptimal sending in new items for work, but the results so far have been quite good and long lasting.
 
So let's narrow this down further. Mine (8x32) with reddish-orange coating has # 463489x. That suggests a change between 4634...600 and ....890.
To be more precise, between 4634680 and 4634890. Presumably 2017 (according to Andy) or possibly 2018, so just a couple of years' production with new coatings on the very last FL 32s made. I wonder why they even bothered.
 
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As a long term user of the FL8x32 as well as the FL10x32 I am happy to say the SFL8x30 does not disappoint.

I have one on order now, it only took a brief stint with the demo unit to seal the deal - to me it is the successor to the FL8x32.
The SFL 8x30 works better for me with glasses than the FL 8x32 did and the imaging is top notch.

Before getting glasses the FL 8x32 was the perfect format and performance package for me over the years.

I think the 8x30 is about as much smaller than my SFL 8x40 as I would want it. Not as stylish as the Leica Ultravid or the Swaros but I have always been a sucker for plain jane Zeiss. :)
@POST #30: Definitely striking size difference. Looks even more extreme than what I recall. But explains why my wife quickly decided the x30 one was her favorite size. As for me, I had focussed my attention to the smaller size from the beginning.

I was in the same situation as you describe, I virtually immediately "fell for" the SFL8x30. But in a way I did not trust myself, one never knows how reliable an 80 year old brain still is. :unsure: So I was glad the dealer's display was available for two days. Thus I delayed my decision to order for 24 hours.
 
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I've had 3 FLs, an SF and an SFL, and have always found the focus wheels to turn smoothly, with equal resistance in both directions, but the resistance has varied a lot. The SFs focus wheel turns quite easily, almost too easily. Two of the FLs were fine, one was so stiff as to be unusable in the field. Sent it to Zeiss and it came back just fine. My 8x SFLs were fairly stiff and stayed that way. As of this morning they are at Zeiss for repair.

My opinion of the Swaro focusing jibes with yours, stiffer in one direction than the other. Also with some pairs the resistance changes a bit through the same direction. Comparison with the various Zeiss bins makes it more noticeable.
Bill,

Sorry to hear you got an SFL with a stiff focuser, they do seem to vary in tension from sample to sample from reading all the comments and reviews.

I remember when Nikon brought out the EDG I, the focusers were so loose they would pop off and hit you in the face when you raised them to look at birds in the trees. To engage the focuser, I had to push down and keep tension on it as I turned the wheel. The diopter adjustment also drifted. And it wasn't just the sample I tried, many birders who bought the EDG I sent them back. But instead of getting them back with fixed focusers, they got a redesigned EDG II, which were nearly twice the price.

Masrif (sp?), a major used binoculars dealer on eBay recently had a 10x42 EDG I for sale (ergonomically, I prefer the EDG I to the 42mm EDG II), but I was concerned about the focuser. He admitted the focuser would sometimes unexpectedly pop out and advised me not to buy it since I was "particular. "For $1300+ he was charging, I should be particular!

When a seller from Japan put up a near mint pair 10x42 EDG II for sale for $1299, he took down his ad.

What the EDG and SFL have in common is they are both made in Japan, which is not a bad thing, IMO. The Japanese offer well-made optics at a lower price.

Here's a very favorable review of the 10x40 model:


Brock
 
As a long term user of the FL8x32 as well as the FL10x32 I am happy to say the SFL8x30 does not disappoint.

I have one on order now, it only took a brief stint with the demo unit to seal the deal - to me it is the successor to the FL8x32.
The SFL 8x30 works better for me with glasses than the FL 8x32 did and the imaging is top notch.

Before getting glasses the FL 8x32 was the perfect format and performance package for me over the years.

I think the 8x30 is about as much smaller than my SFL 8x40 as I would want it. Not as stylish as the Leica Ultravid or the Swaros but I have always been a sucker for plain jane Zeiss. :)
I noticed from the review of the 10x40 SFL on scopeviews.com that the reflections off the SFL objectives are not the typical red T* coatings like the SFs and FLs but rather green and pink, more like the EDG and of lower intensity like the EDG than the T* coatings, which seem to shine red. Zeiss SFL reflections.jpgZeiss SF reflections.jpg

Allbinos hasn't review the SFL yet so I don't know what the light curve looks like but it seems the coatings are different than the other Zeiss models.

Comparing the FL 8x32 and SFL 8x32, what difference, if any, do you perceive in color rendition?

Brock
 
Wow, that is a bargain! I would jump on that!

I am with James, as far as color rendition I never experienced the top end Zeiss being anything other than correct regardless of color of coatings.

With the SFL it seems they work the color correction partly with coatings and it seems to work very very well.

The reddish coatings have not worked well for me (wearing glasses) and that is probably mostly to do with eye box design and my facial features causing my particular eye placement at a point where reflections are pronounced to the point of being detrimental to the user experience.

In short: it sucks to be me.
 
On the HT I remember almost buying one second hand - but it was too bright for me! Tried it on a sunny day and I had trouble focusing it properly. In hindsight it was not long after Lasik eye surgery so the one eye was not fully back in the game and very sensitive to light.

My vision was exceptionally good after surgery but brightness could be disturbing so glare off of the sea/water bodies was painful the first summer.
 

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