8x32 SE - Wow! (5 Viewers)

CSG · May 23, 2006

I mentioned I found an open box pair of these for $550 from a good online dealer (who like others has found the SE's to be slow sellers in favor of the roof prism bins). Received them today and all I can say is wow! These strike me as being the optical equivalent of the big 3 and Nikon's own 8x32 roofs but at a third of the price and complete with a couple quirks.

Others have mentioned the "blackouts" and it simply requires more critical placement of your eyes. Not sure why they happen as 17+mm of eye relief should be about perfect for most. Regardless, you simply have to figure out where to hold them and no problem. You lose the waterproofing of the roofs and a bigger (though equally light) body. For less than half the cost, definitely a fair tradeoff, at least for me.

I see why the BVD author rates these a reference standard. They are no less than stunning. If your budget matters and you can deal with the small shortcomings of these bins, they are highly recommended.

postcardcv · May 23, 2006

glad to hear that you are happy with your new bins, both the SE's and the EII's are excellent bins that offer amazing optics at a reasonable price. I made teh mistake of trying a pair of secondhand EII's last week, then had to put a lot of effort into not buying them, they were stunning. Fortunately the next customer to look at them snapped them up and removed the temptation

AlanM · Jun 6, 2006

CSG said:
I mentioned I found an open box pair of these for $550 from a good online dealer (who like others has found the SE's to be slow sellers in favor of the roof prism bins). Received them today and all I can say is wow! These strike me as being the optical equivalent of the big 3 and Nikon's own 8x32 roofs but at a third of the price and complete with a couple quirks.

Others have mentioned the "blackouts" and it simply requires more critical placement of your eyes. Not sure why they happen as 17+mm of eye relief should be about perfect for most. Regardless, you simply have to figure out where to hold them and no problem. You lose the waterproofing of the roofs and a bigger (though equally light) body. For a third the cost, definitely a fair tradeoff, at least for me.

I see why the BVD author rates these a reference standard. They are no less than stunning. If your budget matters and you can deal with the small shortcomings of these bins, they are highly recommended.

My experience has been that "more critical placement of [one's] eyes" does not solve the problem of blackouts. First of all, when one is using binoculars, speed at times is a factor in seeing a bird after spotting movement without the binoculars. If one must think about placement of the binoculars in one particular position, one will miss the bird. Further, I have never seen any clear explanation of all of the causes of blackouts. Some blame it on eye relief, sometimes too little, sometimes too much. Some blame it partly on the contours of one's face, the bone structure, etc., etc. Some suggest it is caused sometimes by the type of eyeglasses one wears. And so on. I wear trifocal glasses. I now use Swarovski EL 8.5 x 42s. I also have a pair of the most recent Swarovski 8x20s and Pentax DCF WP 8x42s (no longer sold). These do not create blackouts for me when I use them. Among the binoculars I have tried that caused blackouts were the Nikon Monarchs and the most recent Zeiss 8x20s. There have been others. I rejected them because no matter how I positioned them, blackouts would occur at times causing me to lose sight of the bird. I mention all of this only because you are fortunate to work around the blackout problem. But this does not mean that others will be able to.

Pinewood · Jun 7, 2006

AlanM,

I have followed advice about positioning one's eyes, folding the eye cups down with a few mms. left up, and holding the binoculars with front a little higher than the eyepieces. I still suffer from blackouts and I find that the binocular's quirkiness is not worth the effort. I would use the EII over the SE, anyday.

If it works for CSG, he is fortunate.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

CSG · Jun 7, 2006

And yet, countless others are able to use these binoculars with great success and they get a reference standard rating on BVD in spite of the shortcomings some people experience. I suppose this is why it's best to buy binoculars in person rather than online. Perhaps it's you glasses wearers that seem to have the most problems. Also, I'm not as in need of a snapshot view as some of your serious birders. I simply enjoy the superlative views these provide. I'm a casual observer.

All that said, if I was willing to spend almost three times the amount, I'd probably get the Zeiss FL 8x32's or Swaro EL 8x32's. However, the views are no better IMO.

Pinewood · Jun 7, 2006

CSG said:
I suppose this is why it's best to buy binoculars in person rather than online.

INDEED!

CSG said:
Perhaps it's you glasses wearers that seem to have the most problems.

Wearers of specs do seem to have the most difficulty and I publicly confess to myopia.

CSG said:
Also, I'm not as in need of a snapshot view as some of your serious birders. I simply enjoy the superlative views these provide. I'm a casual observer.

I do not understand the reference to "snapshot view."

CSG said:
All that said, if I was willing to spend almost three times the amount, I'd probably get the Zeiss FL 8x32's or Swaro FL 8x32's. However, the views are no better IMO.

The Se has the narrowest FOV of these glasses, which matters to some.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

CSG · Jun 7, 2006

Arthur, I get the sense you don't like the Nikon SE binoculars as you've posted repeatedly on the subject.

Keep in mind, some people may want the optical excellence of the SE and are willing to sacrifice some FOV in order to save half or more the price of the big three's premium roofs. Sorry they didn't work for you but you really seem to be on a campaign to be sure you dissuade as many people from these as possible. Who does that best serve?

Gregorius · Jun 7, 2006

AlanM said:
My experience has been that "more critical placement of [one's] eyes" does not solve the problem of blackouts. First of all, when one is using binoculars, speed at times is a factor in seeing a bird after spotting movement without the binoculars. If one must think about placement of the binoculars in one particular position, one will miss the bird.

Perhaps the key phrase here is "if one must think about placement..." with which I agree entirely. But the point is, surely, that once one has become habituated to a pair of bins (or any equipment, really), one does not think about placement - it becomes an automatic action. It may be more difficult or take more time to reach that stage, but once the stage is reached there is no problem.

I've had my SEs for a year now: when I first started using them I was conscious of having to place them carefully to avoid chromatic aberration and slight black-out; now my placement is automatic and as quick as with any other pair of bins I've used.

Greg.

Pinewood · Jun 7, 2006

CSG said:
Arthur, I get the sense you don't like the Nikon SE binoculars as you've posted repeatedly on the subject.

Keep in mind, some people may want the optical excellence of the SE and are willing to sacrifice some FOV in order to save half or more the price of the big three's premium roofs. Sorry they didn't work for you but you really seem to be on a campaign to be sure you dissuade as many people from these as possible. Who does that best serve?

The SE works for many and does not work for a few. As you wrote, it is necessary to examine a binocular for yourself.
I am happy to read that you are satisfied with a binocular purchased at a good price.
Happy bird watching,
Arthur

The Kingfisher · Jun 9, 2006

About the blackouts when using 8x32 SE..

My experience of blackouts is that it can be seen when the birder moves his/her eyes a lot at the sides. I use glasses when birding and have no problem to get a nice picture when using my SE. For me it´s not very critical with eye placement, but it´s critical with the eye movements. Some eye movements are just fine, but blackouts can be seen when looking far left/right. So for those who have problems with blackouts when using Nikon SE..try to make small eye movements and turn your head/body instead. For me it´s natural when birding and not something I always must remind me about!

/JP

Otto McDiesel · Jun 9, 2006

I bought the 8x32 SE over the net two years ago. I still am sorry, and they will be sold very soon.

The view and the image are perfect, and probably the best 8x ever made.
However, i also think that the SE is a very user unfriendly binocular. I don't use eyeglasses when birding; long eyerelief and softish eyecups, and critical eyeplacement are just too much for me.

So here is my bottom line: try these before buying.

CSG · Jun 9, 2006

It may not be as user friendly as some binoculars and I don't know if the view and image are perfect with the SE's being the best 8x "ever" made but if that's true, they are sure worth considering especially as many users of these don't have much trouble with the faults pointed out here.

But before you drop anymore than $100 or so on any optics, try before you buy is sound advice. Fortunately, most of the better online merchants will allow you to return a bin that doesn't work for you.

To overlook these based on the comments of critics and ignore the vast majority of fans would be a mistake unless you *want* to spend 2 1/2 times more on equivalent optics.

ellisonwales · Jul 12, 2006

I have both the 8x32 se and 8x32 hg (my daughter uses these).I bought the HGs first and they are very easy and comfortable to look through.The SEs were initially a big disappointment in that department.However i did prefer the slightly percieved, sharper image through the SEs ,so i persevered with them.After a year or so , i have gotten use to them and they are quite comfortable to use ,and i wouldnt be without them.I dont wear glasses ,and can understand anyones initial frustration with them (especially if you have numerous other bins that are much more comfortable).The best advice is from those that mention to try them out in person ,as they are quite an expensive item to buy if your not comfortable with them.
ellison

angelo225544 · Aug 25, 2006

ellisonwales said:
However i did prefer the slightly percieved, sharper image through the SEs ,so i persevered with them.After a year or so , i have gotten use to them and they are quite comfortable to use ,and i wouldnt be without them.
ellison

This mirrors my experience. The 8x32 LX is just too small for my large hands, so I tried the 8x32 SE. Amazing sharpness - "sweet spot" barely even applies here - sharpness and lack of distortion extends through the entire image. As little chromatic abberation as I've seen - especially out from the center - probably an inherent advantage of the porro prism. As perfect a fit in my large hands as I have experienced. BUT THE BLACKOUTS! Fortunately, I kept revisiting them just to see the beautiful image quality and slowly but surely the comfort level rose as the all-important eye placement became second nature . SE's are worth spending some time to get to know - they will grow on you given enough time - JUST BE PREPARED TO BE PATIENT!

denco@comcast.n · Aug 26, 2006

CSG said:
I mentioned I found an open box pair of these for $550 from a good online dealer (who like others has found the SE's to be slow sellers in favor of the roof prism bins). Received them today and all I can say is wow! These strike me as being the optical equivalent of the big 3 and Nikon's own 8x32 roofs but at a third of the price and complete with a couple quirks.

Others have mentioned the "blackouts" and it simply requires more critical placement of your eyes. Not sure why they happen as 17+mm of eye relief should be about perfect for most. Regardless, you simply have to figure out where to hold them and no problem. You lose the waterproofing of the roofs and a bigger (though equally light) body. For less than half the cost, definitely a fair tradeoff, at least for me.

I see why the BVD author rates these a reference standard. They are no less than stunning. If your budget matters and you can deal with the small shortcomings of these bins, they are highly recommended.

Nikon SE's are a pain in the butt! I have had both the 8x32 and the 10x42 and optically they are close to being as good as the Top Gun roofs but the usability(BLACK OUTS!) and ergonomics are know where near the top roofs. On top of it they are not waterproof. Once I bought a top end roof I said to myself the only reason people have a Nikon SE is because they can't afford a Top Roof. Honestly that is what I said to myself.

Dennis

Alexis Powell · Aug 26, 2006

The problem with black-outs in the Nikon SE has been reported often enough that potential buyers should be cautious, but I'd like to point out that there are at least a few of us who have no problems with blackout whatsoever, and never did (never had to train ourselves to use the binos in a particular way). I've read all the stuff about spherical abberation of the exit pupil in this model and so on, but the fact is that they do actually match up with some of our eyes unproblemmatically. I suspect that the rubber eyecups are not deep and firm enough for some users. I wear glasses, so I use the SE with eyecups folded all the way down (and find the eye-relief to be perfect).
--AP

FrankD · Aug 26, 2006

I owned a pair of the SE 8x32s for a few months as well and I can honestly say that I never experienced blackouts with them. I preferred to have the eyecups fully collapsed and I do not wear glasses. Even recently I had the opportunity to view Mr. Traynor's pair of 8x32 SEs and was reminded of what a superb image they deliver. A superb image.

...on the other side of the coin I really wish Nikon would make them internal focus/waterproof and throw some updated eyecups on them. If they did then I have a hard time believing that anyone would have problems with them. It is just a shame to see such a perfect optical package just begging to have an update to its physical package. It truly could be the closest thing to the perfect bin.

mayoayo · Aug 26, 2006

[email protected] said:
Nikon SE's are a pain in the butt! I have had both the 8x32 and the 10x42 and optically they are close to being as good as the Top Gun roofs but the usability(BLACK OUTS!) and ergonomics are know where near the top roofs. On top of it they are not waterproof. Once I bought a top end roof I said to myself the only reason people have a Nikon SE is because they can't afford a Top Roof. Honestly that is what I said to myself.

Dennis

Hi there.....i can't afford a "TOP GUN ROOF",..Do you want to give me the"DOUBLE BARREL PAIN IN THE BUTT" 8x32 SE and I will do a painting for you of your favorite pair of ROOFS?...i am making some binoculars paintings for a book now.

ceasar · Aug 26, 2006

I experienced blackouts in 1990 when I got my Leitz 7 x 42 Trinovid BA Roof Prisms and at that time they were about as "Top Gun" as you could get. Once I learned where to place them in relation to my eyes the problem went away and never returned. I now use the Nikon 10 x 42 SE and have never experienced a blackout with them although I think winged eyecups would improve them when using them in a backlit situation, but again, that can be worked around and as far as their view goes, well, it's simply the best! And the ergonomics are fine. My hands are big and they fit me like a glove. They are a marvellous binocular!
Bob

Pileatus · Aug 26, 2006

[email protected] said:
Nikon SE's are a pain in the butt! I have had both the 8x32 and the 10x42 and optically they are close to being as good as the Top Gun roofs but the usability(BLACK OUTS!) and ergonomics are know where near the top roofs. On top of it they are not waterproof. Once I bought a top end roof I said to myself the only reason people have a Nikon SE is because they can't afford a Top Roof. Honestly that is what I said to myself.

Dennis

Dennis,
My wife would heartily disagree and she can have any binocular she chooses.

One of the finest reviews of the 8X32 SE...
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/nikon8x32.html

Excerpts:
"Its optical quality however has already reached an almost legendary reputation."
"More selective is the star test. From center to about 85% (radial) toward the edge both, the Fujinon as well as the Nikon, show stars which appear point-like and sharp."
"The Nikon and Fujinon are absolutely neutral and come both with an unusually bright image."
"...the Nikon SE is a compact binocular without flaws in its mechanical construction, but not sealed and hence with a limited spectrum of application."

John

8x32 SE - Wow! (5 Viewers)

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