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Florida Franklin vs. Laughing Gull (1 Viewer)

S

seelyea

ASJ
Hello, Is this a Franklin or Laughing gull? My understanding is the Franklin is supposed to have white on the tip of the primaries, which this one does not seem to have; but the distance from the tip of the bill to the feet seems short for a laughing gull and it has a well defined half-hood.

Any thoughts?
 

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A tail-less Laughing Gull for me, slightly drooped bill, and no pale contrast between primary base and wrist of wing.

cheers
 
One question: why does the tail seem wrong for both species? I see a tail that is grey with black distal half. On a LaGU old enough to show this hood, the tail should essentially be white. On a FrGU it would show the hood when the tail is white with black subterminal or all white, but where does the grey come from?

Niels
 
njlarsen said:
One question: why does the tail seem wrong for both species? I see a tail that is grey with black distal half. On a LaGU old enough to show this hood, the tail should essentially be white. On a FrGU it would show the hood when the tail is white with black subterminal or all white, but where does the grey come from?

Niels
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I think what you are seeing is the dark feet (blurred) under the tail. The white tail is all there, but the photo is badly overexposed and it "disappears" mixed with the background (same with the upper side of the neck). Tilt your screen a bit and I think you'll see it.
 
I am going to believe you when you say you can see it, I cannot -- at least where I am sitting right now.

Niels
 
On opening the thumbnail it looked to me like a first summer/second calendar year Franklin’s on general shape/structure - it has compact build with apparently short, broad-based wings.
It does seem to have a large bill for Franklin’s but that may be an impression caused by blurring, as the photo is not completely sharp, causing it to look both longer and deeper than it really is.

I think that Raphael is correct that we are being mis-led about the true tail shape/pattern by the over-exposure of the whites. I’ve sketched in what I believe is the actual upper-tail shape. You can see this (just) if you tilt your screen a little. The black areas are the feet, but note that even on an over-exposed shot like this any dark tail band should still be visible (if it were present!!!)

Lack of tail band, with a partial hood like this fits a one year old Franklin’s perfectly. The patchy white forehead with broad white eyelids that give Franklin’s that characteristic ‘sleepy’ look are also clearly visible.

A small number of Franklin’s can retain some of their juvenile primaries into their second year (but most Franklin’s undergo a complete moult twice a year, so typically they should show an adult-like primary pattern even at one year old). I believe that is why this bird isn’t showing the typical pattern you would expect to see on Franklin’s.

I would like to see another picture of this bird if possible, to confirm my suspicions…
 

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Ken probably was correct saying it lost its tail completely, and that what I see is the legs and feet. I am now on a different PC and still cannot see any hint of a tail

Niels
 
njlarsen said:
Ken probably was correct saying it lost its tail completely, and that what I see is the legs and feet. I am now on a different PC and still cannot see any hint of a tail

Niels
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It appears to have also lost it's neck.;)

I think Steve is probably right.
 
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lewis20126 said:
Laugher for me

cheers, alan
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Can you elaborate Alan? If Laugher what age? 2cy or 3y? I could still be persuaded that way if I've missed something...

Just the way I'm interpreting the image it looks ok for 2cy Franklin's, but it's not the clearest image
 
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Second-summer (3cy) Laugher for me; if you've got Olsen's Gulls, there's a good match for it (except less over-exposed!) in Plate 722.

I reckon Franklin's of any age can be excluded; a first-summer wouldn't have the full hood or grey secondaries, while a second-summer has a much more adult-like primary pattern, with less black and at least some white on the primaries.
 
Nutcracker said:
Second-summer (3cy) Laugher for me; if you've got Olsen's Gulls, there's a good match for it (except less over-exposed!) in Plate 722.

I reckon Franklin's of any age can be excluded; a first-summer wouldn't have the full hood or grey secondaries, while a second-summer has a much more adult-like primary pattern, with less black and at least some white on the primaries.
Click to expand...

I'll have to agree with Nutcracker for once! ;)

cheers, alan
 
lewis20126 said:
I'll have to agree with Nutcracker for once! ;)

cheers, alan
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Yeah, just for once I might join you in that agreement-he makes a good case for 3cy Laughing Gull-credit where it's due! :smoke:

This (presumed?) 3cy Laughing Gull taken in August has a similar wing pattern with worn outer-most primaries. It's not hard to see how, one month earlier, that it could also have had a similar extent of black on the hood:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cuatr...zWF-AWLBNa-Dkearq-AXFU16-HY6mKL-qpzq9V-cpgAVL

Just for comparison, a couple of presumed 2cy Franklin's. The first bird, taken in June, with grey secondaries and non-adult like primary pattern: https://www.flickr.com/photos/91918...zjb-GJxV6P-dvxKmL-wnrXHB-gu93SU-j6WUhZ-sgjfv1

The second one, taken in May, shows that not all Franklin's have tiny bills: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dgrgi...z7-dkEAXb-xK3XRY-uBHdEc-tdRCiL-ddxnHA-doYu9C/ (though most do!)

I wouldn't mind seeing the open wings of that second bird, and the hood/head pattern isn't too dissimilar to the subject bird either, though both of them lack any dark around the chin/throat.

Another lesson that gulls, even the smaller species, rarely conform to what they are supposed to look like in field guides.

Back to the subject bird again, I still think it's an odd shape for Laughing Gull (oddly short-necked and short/broad winged-or so it seems in the image) but if its bill really is that size then Laughing Gull must surely be the best fit. I wouldn't mind seeing more of it though...
 
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