Best lens or lens/TC combo for <$2000 USD? (1 Viewer)

[Merg]

I'll soon be in the market for something 400mm or up, and I'm curious if you all had $2000, which lens, or lens/TC combo would you go for?

I know there's an uncountable number of combos, but these are some of the ones that come to mind...

Sigma 50-500mm
Sigma 80-400mm OS
Tamron 200-500mm
Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 VR + 2x TC
Nikon 80-400mm VR
Nikon 300mm f/4 + 1.4x/1.7x/2.0x TC

Some other lens/TC combo that I don't mention above?

Thanks...

 

[Merg]

nobody?

 

[Texun]

First off, are you shooting film or digital? Next, try "Astromart.com" classifieds. The sellers on that site will be happy to respond to your questions. For two large, you can damn well have anything you want.

 

[Outboard]

What camera are you going to be using this on? If you said a D50 then the Nikon 80-400 is going to be too slow. If you said a D2X or D300 then 80-400 is not to bad at all, it's marginal on the D200. There is the Sigma 80-400 option as well.

 

[Duke Leto]

going to say that I like my AF-S 300 and either the 1.4 or 1.7TC, its a good traveling set up being reasonably light and compact. I have steered clear of 2x TC's if your serious about quality, I've never had any luck with them even on my 70-200vr.
Outboard - marginal on the D200 the 80-400? Chris Packham http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/photography.htm if he is to be believed swears by this combination and he's had a reasonable amount of success, check out his website.

 

[Merg]

Sorry. I'm using a D200.

Duke (or others)...what do you make of this, from Nikon's website?
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2151

Designed exclusively for use with AF-S and AF-I lenses, the AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II completes the Nikon lineup of 1.4x, 1.7x, and 2.0x compact teleconverters*

Autofocusing possible** when used with D1, D1X, D2X, D2XS, D1H, D100, D200,

** Autofocus not possible with 200-400mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor, 300mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S Nikkor, 500mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S II Nikkor, 600mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S II Nikkor

*Compatable with 200mm f/2G ED-IF AF-S VR Nikkor, 300mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Nikkor, 400mm f/2.8D ED-IF AF-S II Nikkor, 80-200mm f/2.8D ED-IF AF-S ,70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor, 200-400mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor, 300mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S Nikkor, 500mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S II Nikkor, 600mm f/4D ED-IF AF-S II Nikkor

...and would you recommend the 300mm/1.7x set up over the 80-400VR?

 

[Merg]

Next, try "Astromart.com" classifieds. The sellers on that site will be happy to respond to your questions. For two large, you can damn well have anything you want.

Thanks for the hospitality.

 

[Outboard]

Outboard - marginal on the D200 the 80-400? Chris Packham http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/photography.htm if he is to be believed swears by this combination and he's had a reasonable amount of success, check out his website.

What I meant by marginal is that I think it works but not what you would call snappy focusing. I was using a D200 and a borrowed 80-400VR photographing Bald Eagles and Ospreys at the Conowingo Dam in Maryland. I had far better success using my 300 AF-S f4 and the TC14E than the 80-400VR. It was not bad but just not quick enough for me, I used it with a D2X and it was much better due to the more powerful drive motor. I understand the D300/80-400VR combination is pretty good, especially with the MB-D10 grip. It's a really nice lightweight lens I must say, I wish they would bring out an improved version.

I agree with you in that the 300 AF-S f4 and the TC14E combination is pretty good giving the equivalent of 420mm at f5.6 at nearly no loss of definition.

 

[Outboard]

Sorry. I'm using a D200.

Duke (or others)...what do you make of this, from Nikon's website?
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2151



...and would you recommend the 300mm/1.7x set up over the 80-400VR?

I believe the threshold level for Auto-focusing is f5.6 which is why the TC14E is OK because you loose only 1 f stop, thus an f4 lens becomes f5.6 and is "allowed" whereas the TC17E looses 1.5 f stops which is too dark for the Auto-focusing system. Thats not to say it doesn't work it's just "iffy", given good light it will work I understand. I have never tried this combination myself however.

 

[Merg]

I believe the threshold level for Auto-focusing is f5.6 which is why the TC14E is OK because you loose only 1 f stop, thus an f4 lens becomes f5.6 and is "allowed" whereas the TC17E looses 1.5 f stops which is too dark for the Auto-focusing system. Thats not to say it doesn't work it's just "iffy", given good light it will work I understand. I have never tried this combination myself however.

Great info. I wasn't aware of the 5.6 limit on autofocus.
Thank you!

 

[ikw101]

going to say that I like my AF-S 300 and either the 1.4 or 1.7TC, its a good traveling set up being reasonably light and compact. I have steered clear of 2x TC's if your serious about quality, I've never had any luck with them even on my 70-200vr.
Outboard - marginal on the D200 the 80-400? Chris Packham http://www.chrispackham.co.uk/photography.htm if he is to be believed swears by this combination and he's had a reasonable amount of success, check out his website.

Wow, what a bizarre website. CP always comes across as a genuine, down to earth sort of bloke I was a bit taken aback to see his website and the unashamed use of a management company. I'll have to try a search for Johnny Kingdom's ! Found it http://www.johnnykingdom.co.uk/gallery.html Definitely prefer enthusiasm to PR.

Going back on topic I suspect the difference other than weight and cost between the Sigma 80-400mm OS and the Nikon 80-400mm VR is minimal. Undoubtedly the Nikon will have a higher resale value but I'm not convinced about the value for money. The majority of reviews suggest it needs to be stopped down typically to F8 to get the most out of the lens. If this is the case the benefits of VR suddenly seem far less attractive.

The AF-S 300 and the Nikon TC-14E would be my preference with perhaps the Kenko Pro TC 1.7 in the bag for mid-summer.

I can't help wondering with the improvements being made to reduce sensor noise whether VR, OS, IS etc.. is a bit of a marketing con. The way things are going within the next 5 years there must be a reasonable chance that the technology could be superceded by the noise free sensor.

If it helps at all Merg I don't know of anybody who has ever returned an AF-S 300. Sadly a quick search on Google reveals the same cannot be said for the Nikon 80-400 VR.

For more info please see lens performance survey

Ian

 

[rezMole]

Great info. I wasn't aware of the 5.6 limit on autofocus.
Thank you!

There isn't an f5.6 limit on autofocus (except on most Canon cameras). If there was, my Tamron 200-500mm wouldn't AF at 500mm (f6.3), and it does. It even autofocuses with a 1.4x converter - but slowly!

 

[ikw101]

There isn't an f5.6 limit on autofocus (except on most Canon cameras). If there was, my Tamron 200-500mm wouldn't AF at 500mm (f6.3), and it does. It even autofocuses with a 1.4x converter - but slowly!

No easy way to say this but both the Tamron and Sigma are being selective with the information they communicate to the camera. If you tell a camera you're an f5.6 lens instead of a f6.3 rather naively it believes you and the AF attempts to make the best of it. Likewise the Kenko Pro TC's. Please be aware Nikon lenses and TC's are a bit more honest and will communicate the correct info to the camera. Above F5.6 and your camera will refuse to focus. :eek!:

 

[Duke Leto]

I believe the threshold level for Auto-focusing is f5.6 which is why the TC14E is OK because you loose only 1 f stop, thus an f4 lens becomes f5.6 and is "allowed" whereas the TC17E looses 1.5 f stops which is too dark for the Auto-focusing system. Thats not to say it doesn't work it's just "iffy", given good light it will work I understand. I have never tried this combination myself however.

I have used 1.4, 1.7 and 2x with my 300AF-S and have never suffered from loss of AF, it might occasionally hunt with a 2x but never fails unless the light is so poor that trying to photograph object with a pseudo 900mm lens is extremely difficult. Sold my 2x as it never gave me sharp results but the 1.7 and 1.4 are both excellent TCs, the 1.4 now sits on my 500m and the 1.7 on the 300mm for when I'm on the move. I can only speak as I find so no offense to anyone on this thread intended.
As already said the 1.4 and the 300 is a good set up, a little short but offers excellent results, the 1.7 offers a little more reach and if used correctly will return excellent results

 

[bkrownd]

Nikon 80-400mm VR

I'd say this, because I'd never consider anything without IS/VR/OS/SR...i.e. image stabilization. If Sigma would put OS in their 300mm f/2.8 I'd be sold.

 

[Outboard]

There isn't an f5.6 limit on autofocus (except on most Canon cameras). If there was, my Tamron 200-500mm wouldn't AF at 500mm (f6.3), and it does. It even autofocuses with a 1.4x converter - but slowly!

Nikon do not recommend the use of an f4 lens with anything over a TC14E. You can use an f2.8 lens with a 1.4 or a 1.7 or even a 2.0 which will take the f stop to f5.6. You will notice I used the word "threshold" rather than limit, the Auto Focus will work but the focusing performance is reduced.

Further reading. http://www.digiscoped.com/teleconverters.html

 

[Jaff]

If your looking at a 300mm F4 + 1.7TC combo then check out kctsangs gallery, uses it on a D80 and gets some good stuff. Drop him a PM if you to find out about any focus issues.

 

[Duke Leto]

If your looking at a 300mm F4 + 1.7TC combo then check out kctsangs gallery, uses it on a D80 and gets some good stuff. Drop him a PM if you to find out about any focus issues.

I have this combo so my gallery will show some example of both the 300 with a 1.4 and a 1.7 check out the picture titled "Ringed Godwit" on the 1st page

Seasons Greetings

 

[Jaff]

I have this combo so my gallery will show some example of both the 300 with a 1.4 and a 1.7 check out the picture titled "Ringed Godwit" on the 1st page

Seasons Greetings

Sorry Steve, I missed your post where you talked about AF, just saw one particular post and instantly went to my reply and kc's photos were fresh in my mind.

Oh and I know, I'm a traitor. 8-P :-O
Adam

 

[Telecorder]

Subjective Opinion

I'll soon be in the market for something 400mm or up, and I'm curious if you all had $2000, which lens, or lens/TC combo would you go for?

I know there's an uncountable number of combos, but these are some of the ones that come to mind...

Sigma 50-500mm
Sigma 80-400mm OS
Tamron 200-500mm
Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 VR + 2x TC
Nikon 80-400mm VR
Nikon 300mm f/4 + 1.4x/1.7x/2.0x TC

Some other lens/TC combo that I don't mention above?
Thanks...

For a subjective opinion based primarily on reading many postings/reviews over the years (and only personal ownership/usage of my Bigma)...

Of the ones you've indicated, in terms of the best IQ to reach 500mm, the sequence would probably be--
Nikon 300mm f/4 + 1.4x
Sigma 50-500mm
Tamron 200-500mm
Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 VR + 2x TC (maybe a 1.4X TC + crop)
Nikon 80-400mm VR
Sigma 80-400mm OS

With the last 3 in no particular order.

Distance to subject, subject size and IQ of the lens are all inter-related. -- The first two correlate to determining the long end needs and the latter is strongly related to cost. In my experience, cropping to achieve reach is limited to no more than 1/3 - 1/2 of the FOV before IQ degrades.

Any/all offer trade offs and compromises for the user. Best IQ - prime; useful zoom range - usually somewhat compromised IQ and slower aperture; much like a see saw -- one desired feature will be at the expense of another desired feature.

Others, of course, will have their own valid opinions. For me, my Bigma was/is the best bang for the buck...