Black Kite or Buzzard? (1 Viewer)

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Tim and Spud,

Must admit my HB dates were for eastern Denmark (Utterslev Mose in particular, where I cut my teeth birding), I didn't know Skagen would have any particular differences. But not too surprising that the first Skagen birds are a bit later, as they're presumably bound for further north (58°N+ in Norway, rather than 56°N in S Sweden)

Michael

 

[Michael Frankis]

I think I'll throw in one more suggestion (and wait for it to be shot down!!)

Subadult (2nd summer?) male Marsh Harrier

Seems OK on everything I can think of, bearing in mind it is very much in silhouette in all the flight pics. And the streaky paler head of the perched pic fits well too. No problems with the date, then.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Michael

 

[logos]

Not a daft suggestion at all Michael, that is a possibility that I've considered quite seriously - although I was tentatively thinking along the lines of a melanistic bird. One thing that put me off initially was the presence of fine barring on the flight feathers but I know now that even this can occasionally be found in Marsh Harriers of this age.

I still think it is most likely a Buteo species but would be willing to listen to anyone who could put forward a detailed case for it being a Marsh Harrier.

Now that bombast boy is on his hols we can have a reasoned debate.

Spud

 

[wpercy]

Some notes on why i think Black Kite.
The shot of the perched bird shows a typical pale streaked head and pale eye of an older bird,the fine steaking on the underparts are right too,the dipped wing flight shot shows a good straight ended,sharp cornered triangular tail(notch not always obvious on partly spread tail,looks quite long winged in this shot too,the small flight shows(to me)shows a typical wing atitude from this angle.
I admit some things dont seem quite right,i can see why some are going for Buteo,with that dark trailing edge (although it is only a thin trailing edge),also maybe a little to much pale on the underwing,allthough i think the faint barring here is good for Kite,
some are talking of carpal patches,but i cant make them out(maybe my old computor).
I am still ready to eat my bins if that is a Honey.

 

[logos]

Your bins are quite safe i'm sure Wayne, I don't have photoshop or anything similar to manipulate images but perhaps someone who does could post a couple of lightened versions of the bird - though I don't know whether this will infringe copyright.

If anyone is interested: what I do to manipulate images is to create a word file, insert the image there and then mess about with it.

Spud

 

[Edward woodwood]

spud - i've lightened it but don't know how to attach it - sorry for being a divvy - any advice....

 

[logos]

haven't got a clue - must be an even bigger divvy.

Spud

 

[Steve G]

Hi Tim. If you've lightened it post it using the green "post reply" box at the bottom rt. of this posting. Using this "button" allows you to upload the image after browsing your computer to find it................. I have a strange feeling of deja-vu with this thread!
cheers

 

[Edward woodwood]

thanks steve

don't know if it's much use (or legal etc) but I'm prepared to be sued....but here it is.....
I'm off out for a bottleB
B

 

[Edward woodwood]

one more....
who's a clever boy? :king:

 

[wpercy]

Come on boys look at that tail.

 

[logos]

Come on Wayne, look at the wings ; - )

 

[Edward woodwood]

Looks to me as if you were right from the start Wayne
can't make much of a case for anything else

 

[logos]

Black Kite never shows any significant hint of translucency on the secondaries and lacks a defined tip on these feathers, they are palest at the extreme base and rather evenly barred through their entire length. The primaries on even the palest birds (lineatus) are evenly and finely barred all the way to the tip on at least the inners and lack a well defined dark trailing edge. Eurasian races of Black Kites (except when in moult - not the case here) show p6 (numbered ascendently) significantly longer than p5 and therefore show six obvious fingers unlike this bird. Using both images you can count the primaries from both ends.

Just because you can't make a case for anything else Tim doesn't mean you can positively identify this bird as a Black Kite.

Spud

 

[Edward woodwood]

but the pix are well dodgy though Spud- even the leading edge appears to have a dark outline. There does appear to be some barring on the prims and it may just be that rest is not visible due to the quality of the pic.....and that tail
Not saying it IS one just that I can't get any closer to an ID than that

 

[Michael Frankis]

In case they help at all . . .

Michael

 

[THH]

Dark carpal patches, dark belly and paler head and breast. Is this only obvious on my computer?

The underwing coverts look darker than the translucent primaries and secondaries - an effect of strong sunlight.
The fine barring on the primaries fits well with Rough-legged.

I`m still convinced it`s Rough-legged.

 

[logos]

I can just about get a hint of these features you mention when I lighten the bird a great deal, and I also get a hint of a pale tail when I do so.

I assume from what others have said that the bird looks the same on their monitors as it does on mine.

The perched bird does remind me of a Rough-legged Buzzard.

American readers may need to know that in Europe almost the entire population of Rough-legs consists of what you would call pale birds. In fact, the existence of very rare dark birds, like many in N. Am, has only come to light in recent years.

Spud

 

[wpercy]

......................DICK...........!!

 

[wpercy]

DICK.....NICK.............NICK DICK......Hmmmmmm!!!