Budget compact 8 x 32 choices (1 Viewer)

[paddy7]

Hi
I know exactly what you mean - i do the same between a Vanguard Endeavor 8x42 EDII and the Zeiss FL 8x32. Warm vs cool. I'm never out with both, but use them both equally (along with the M7). I tend to pick one over the other , according to where i'm going, time of day, nature of the light or perhaps how far i'm walking (if weight is going to be an issue).
Sometimes it's just good to have a contrast - i'm constantly aware of how great all three of them are at what they do best.

 

[CliveP]

I sometimes find the Nikon a bit to red/green strong. My Sapphire 8x24 is bright and cooler clear but can be a bit washed out but I like all for the variety. I liked the Sapphire 8x25 I had recently best for colour and contrast.

Yes the Kowa again. It's somewhere in between with very nice greens and a good balance overall. I think it was Brock that said he thought a particular bin had a sort of polarised effect and I think this is how the Kowa could be described. The contrast or brightness isn't crazy but it's very acceptable and well balanced and it shows very clear edges to everything with no colour bleeding or contrast sizzle or whatever and that's why it impresses me so much. I let my uncle try it (who doesn't use bins normally) and the first thing he said was "it's very high magnification", but obviously that was just the clarity giving him that impression. He probably thought it was about 20x or something, that's why we all mostly make the mistake in the beginning of thinking magnification is all.

For years I wondered what the black birds were flying around with the white birds that I can see in the distant sky from where I sit. I thought they were crows chumming about with gulls. Only recently the light was clear enough that I could make out that they were actually pigeons and when the sky is nice here with some dark background and some sun coming through they actually look really brilliant through the Kowa with the light reflecting very brightly off the white wings as they twist and turn in the sky and the black bodies contrasting against this. I remember even with my swaro el's trying to track them and work out what they were but unsuccessfully. It's clear to see now that they are out having their exercise and just playing around and giving me a bit of a light show and now I can recognise them with all of my bins the Sapphire 8x and M7 10x but the Kowa is right up there or even possible the best. It's close. It's the bin I have allocated to have to hand here. The 10x is to much and the Sapphire 8x42 has a bugger of a focus to wrestle around and the 8x Kowa has the most 3Dness.

Would the 8x M7 be better than this Kowa? I suspect it may have a seemingly larger view which would attract me to getting one. The M7 10x view is almost as large seeming as the 8x42 Sapphire. The Kowa is not far behind though. Everything about the Kowa SV seems better than average and the sum of it's parts is very good. I kind of got it by accident as I always thought the design looked a bit gimmicky from photos and I had never previously thought of it as a choice for me. Well, sometimes we are wrong and this is certainly one of those times for me but I still think I would like an M7 8x and maybe another Kowa at some stage especially if the higher range models are better than this base model SV which they should be?

 

[cnick6]

My criticism of the M7 is the rubber and flimsy eyecups and their weak locking positions.

Agree 100% Clive. My left eyecup will drop down at the slight air movement it seems. A plastic shim is need to keep the eyecups fixed.

The grip is nice and tacky but soils way too easily. I suspect this affects its longevity.

Nikon should maybe fix this with their next iteration of the M7 as I think the optics are way to good for the housing they are held in. I suppose then the price might doubly quadruple or something and it will then be an alpha bin.

Nikon is in dire need of a mid-range model. If they would address the issues with the M7 and use a higher degree of glass (to get at least 90% edge sharpness) they would likely sell thousands of them.

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

I treated myself to the Vortex diamond back 8 x32 recently, pretty good for the money and they have a no quibble guarantee

I'll second that.
They are lower price than many of the above,
but a very satisfying view. From 2014 on, extremely good
contrast and saturation.

 

[CliveP]

I'll second that.
They are lower price than many of the above,
but a very satisfying view. From 2014 on, extremely good
contrast and saturation.

Interesting. How so the improvements from 2014 onwards? Is there information that they changed something? I like the wide field and they are well priced and I've owned some Hawke Endurance before that seem to have the had the same stubby body and I did like it for size and hold but they (the Hawke) had a really awful focuser, very fast and inaccurate so I binned them. Actually it was a brand new replacement pair Hawke had sent me and I think something gave in the focuser on the first try looking through them and they were basically junk after the first few seconds.

I had been looking at the 8x28 Diamondback as a compact or possibly even the 10x. Would this have the same improvement since 2014? Seems from reviews the eyecups may be a bit short for the 19mm eye relief though? Probably set up better for the 16mm eye relief of the 10x28?

 

[FrankD]

These thread links may prove helpful. I did an inexpensive 8x32 binocular comparision a year or two ago which included a few of the models you are looking at. I also did a direct comparison of the Mojave and Nikon in question.

Currently, my "go to" model is the 8x30 Maven B3. It is closely related/styled to the Nikon Monarch M7 but with better armoring, a metal chassis and slightly different coatings. They are alike enough overall that I would certainly use comments directed at one then towards the other.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=269560&highlight=8x32

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=279586&highlight=8x32

Having said all that I would agree about the Sightron BS II as well. If it wasn't for your requirement on length then they would certainly be at the top of my recommendation list.

Lastly, you did mention a friend on an even tighter budget. With that thought in mind I would also suggest the inexpensive 8x30 porros available from a variety of companies. Since you are UK based I would suggest the Opticron Savanna 8x30. The optical performance is better than almost all of the sub $200 roofs in that size range and they typically retail for around $100 US.

 

[Wanderingphotographer]

Frank, your summary review was actually the basis for my shortlist, many thanks! And I'll pass on comments to my friend, though I suspect they'll veto porros on size.

I was hoping to have compared the M7 and TED by now but time hasn't allowed. I'm also trying to to let my eye wander to higher price points-truth be told I can't justify and I'm sure the options discussed would do the job admirably. But I must confess to wanting to check there performance against the Kowa XD,Viper HD and Meopro HD-the latter in particular, as there seems to be no reviews still?!

 

[FrankD]

WP,

My opinion of the Terra ED/Monarch 7, if you want it, is that the Monarch is the better binocular optically and ergonomically...at least for me. Optically, and in particular, I found the Terra to display a warmer, almost yellow, tinge to the image, in comparison to the more neutral, but still slightly warm, color representation of the Nikon. Field of view certainly favors the Nikon as well.

Ergonomically the Nikon feels more compact because of the physical dimensions and the rubber armoring. The focus wheel on all of the units I tried was also buttery smooth.

Hope that helps a bit but, ultimately, it is going to boil down to which you prefer.

 

[CliveP]

I don't get why my M7 with "ED" lens has more CA and less edge definition, less accurate colour rendition and contrast than my Kowa. I think the Kowa has much less stray light internally which would explain the contrast. Could also be partly that my Kowa SV is 8x and my M7 10x. I really do find this Kowa pretty remarkable as I would never have expected something at this level to be so impressive. I'd love an 8x42 version for easier eye placement but the 8x42 SV has poor fov in comparison to the 8x32. If the Kowa XD Prominar is better then I want one of those but I would have liked 8 deg instead of the 7.5 for the 8x32.

Anyhow the Kowa SV shows quite a bit better view than my M7 in terms of a wonderfully composed image because of these things and I still think the M7 is great too

Have you ever tried the Kowa SV 8x32 Frank?

 

[cnick6]

My opinion of the Terra ED/Monarch 7, if you want it, is that the Monarch is the better binocular optically and ergonomically...at least for me. Optically, and in particular, I found the Terra to display a warmer, almost yellow, tinge to the image, in comparison to the more neutral, but still slightly warm, color representation of the Nikon. Field of view certainly favors the Nikon as well.

I would agree with this Frank with a minor note that the wide FOV comes at the expense of a smaller center sharpness. It's probably a positive design trade-off though.

Ergonomically the Nikon feels more compact because of the physical dimensions and the rubber armoring. The focus wheel on all of the units I tried was also buttery smooth.

I like the Zeiss armor a bit better than the M7. I think it could take more of a beating without really showing much damage whereas the M7 would probably survive but it would show its wear.

The Zeiss focus has always been smooth but my M7 8x30 was quite stiff. It's slowly loosening up with more use. The focus itself seems very good and consistent. One could argue the Zeiss is so fast that it's easy to overshoot the focus.

 

[FrankD]

Clive,

I tried some new Kowas (in terms of what I had experience with before) this past June at an Optics show but, for the life of me, I can't remember the models. I don't think either of them were of the 8x32 configuration.

On that note though, I am somewhat friendly with a couple of the Kowa reps. I will send them an email to see if I can get a demo unit for review.

Cnick,

I don't disagree with your comments. Okay, all but one. I don't have the Zeiss on hand but I never received the impression that the Nikon had a "small sweet spot". Quite the opposite actually. Maybe in relation to the size of the field of view but not "in general".

 

[CliveP]

Clive,

I tried some new Kowas (in terms of what I had experience with before) this past June at an Optics show but, for the life of me, I can't remember the models. I don't think either of them were of the 8x32 configuration.

On that note though, I am somewhat friendly with a couple of the Kowa reps. I will send them an email to see if I can get a demo unit for review.

QUOTE]

Yes, it'd be good to know if the Kowa 8x32 SV also seem as good to yourself as I have been proclaiming and I stand by it or if you recognise them as being a clone of some other Chinese made bin. I can't say how they compare to the 8x30 M7 not having one to hand. I expect them each to have slightly different strengths.

Was just out with my M7 10x30 and it worked great but I have discovered it is better to offset the dioptre one notch to get a pop focus whereas all my other bins work on zero setting.

I really like both these Kowa and M7 and it would be hard for me to choose between them. I would be satisfied with either. Fortunately I have both.

 

[CliveP]

Some happy ...

snaps

 

[cnick6]

I never received the impression that the Nikon had a "small sweet spot". Quite the opposite actually. Maybe in relation to the size of the field of view but not "in general".

My [M7 8x30] has a sweet spot that is around the 60% range but I haven't had time in this beautiful weather to do any more evaluation. I am going to do that this weekend.

As I was explaining to another forum member, I see three levels of focus with the M7. Think of three circular zones ranging from sharp, soft blur to completely out of focus (which is limited to that last 5% outer edge.)

I could be wrong but I would guess that if the FOV was reduced to about 7.7 degrees then that 3rd layer would probably not be seen -- and of course, the "apparent" sweet spot would be much larger.

 

[peatmoss]

Clive, I've long suspected that the Kowa SVs are basically the same binocular as the Carson XM-HDs, but with different armor. I've got an XM-HD in 8x32 configuration, and it's probably my favorite roof under $200. The slightly longer than average barrels come from the design in which the "objectives" are actually optical windows, with the true objectives moving back and forth behind the window to achieve focus. This has a couple of effects on performance. First, since the true objectives are well recessed within the barrels, the excess barrel length acts as a lens shade, improving the binocular's glare resistance. Second, since the objectives focus as a discrete optical unit, chromatic aberration tends to be relatively low. And, they're pretty sharp for the money too.

 

[CliveP]

Clive, I've long suspected that the Kowa SVs are basically the same binocular as the Carson XM-HDs, but with different armor. I've got an XM-HD in 8x32 configuration, and it's probably my favorite roof under $200. The slightly longer than average barrels come from the design in which the "objectives" are actually optical windows, with the true objectives moving back and forth behind the window to achieve focus. This has a couple of effects on performance. First, since the true objectives are well recessed within the barrels, the excess barrel length acts as a lens shade, improving the binocular's glare resistance. Second, since the objectives focus as a discrete optical unit, chromatic aberration tends to be relatively low. And, they're pretty sharp for the money too.

Thanks peatmoss. Yes I wondered why the objectives were flat on the outside of Kowa SV and about the length of the binocular as compared with the many other stubby 8x32 available. Your info would seem to explain it.

How do you think they compare to the M7 8x30 if you have tried this model?

There is definitely something about this Kowa that I really like a lot. It's quite possibly my favourite bin of all of them (and the cheapest) although I don't fully understand why it agrees with me so well, but that is really of less concern to me. Maybe just that it suits my main uses the best.

 

[peatmoss]

Clive, unfortunately, I haven't tried an M7, although from what I've read, I would not be surprised if the Kowa had much better glare control. At the $200 price level, my reference points are the Sightron/Wapiti/ForestaHR bins, and, in my opinion, the Kowa/Carson compete very well. Not necessarily as wide a field, but just as sharp, and better with glare. The fit and finish are very good for the price, too.

 

[trevd01]

I just bought a pair of Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 after reading this thread. £259 from Clifton Cameras. They are a binocular I wouldn't have considered before I read the thread.

So, thanks. They have exceeded my expectations as a second pair to carry in the pocket when walking or to pack for travelling (e.g. when not primarily birding).

They are very bright, light, quick focusing, close focusing, with a really good field of view.

Comparing them with my primary Leica Ultravid 8x42 HD, the most obvious difference is the colour rendering is brighter on the Nikon (Fuji Velvia rather than Provia!)

 

[brocknroller]

I just bought a pair of Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 after reading this thread. £259 from Clifton Cameras. They are a binocular I wouldn't have considered before I read the thread.

So, thanks. They have exceeded my expectations as a second pair to carry in the pocket when walking or to pack for travelling (e.g. when not primarily birding).

They are very bright, light, quick focusing, close focusing, with a really good field of view.

Comparing them with my primary Leica Ultravid 8x42 HD, the most obvious difference is the colour rendering is brighter on the Nikon (Fuji Velvia rather than Provia!)

I like the 8x30 M7, too. How is it with controlling glare/flare from the sun? It seems to get mixed reviews in that regard, some say it shows too much flare, others say it controls it well, and this might be due to some QC issues regarding unpainted parts in the objective tubes on some samples. The one I tried handled flare well.

I know what you mean about the color rendering. Same difference between the M7 and Zeiss 8x30 Terra ED.

Brock

 

[cnick6]

I just bought a pair of Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 after reading this thread. They are very bright, light, quick focusing, close focusing, with a really good field of view. Comparing them with my primary Leica Ultravid 8x42 HD, the most obvious difference is the colour rendering is brighter on the Nikon

Hi Trev, yeah, I think you'll like the M7's. They're very compact. I have taken them with me just about everywhere the past few weeks. I have a pocket in my laptop bag where they fit snug. My only minor complaint is that my focus knob was quite stiff at first. It's starting to loosen up but taking its sweet time. I wish I had an automated robot to break-in my M7!

Interesting comment about the Leica. I just recently picked up the Leica 8x42 UVHD+ and I can report that the Plus has even brighter rendering than the Nikon. I never used the non-Plus model so it's hard to know exactly what you're seeing but everyone has said the UVHD colors were warm. The Plus is almost dead-neutral in its color output but the extra bright coatings really stand out with certain colors, typically the brighter colors.

If only Nikon could make the M# series sharper across the entire FOV...