Cornell Lab Review - Zeiss Did Very Well Here (4 Viewers)

[Troubador]

Quote Perterra: accelerated like a scalded dog

Hey PT

Is this a texas thing, scalding dogs?
Over here, in our version of the saying, its poor old cats that get scalded.
Its also cats that get caught on hot tin roofs.

BTW agree with you and James about the tests. Its all useful stuff providing you keep it in proportion and above all develop your own ideas.

Lee

 

[Kammerdiner]

...

I once bought a car based on the published specs in magazines, it was a real little hot rod, what you got from reading specs was it stuck to the road like glue, accelerated like a scalded dog, stopped in an amazingly short distance, what you couldnt get from the specs was that it rode like a wagon with wood blocks for springs, rattled like a box of rocks, steering was so tight if you sneezed at 75 mph you would change lanes, it ate $250 apiece tires every 12,000 miles, you couldnt park far enough from a curb to keep from knocking the front spoiler off and it drug the front every time you entered a parking lot.. It was beast that loved to run, it was also a beast to live with. Maintenance was a bear, it blew turbo seals like clock work and spent as much time in the shop as it did on the road. After 2 years of wrestling with it I got rid myself of it and got a nice little sports coupe that wasnt rated as highly, had half as much horsepower, rode nice but firm. I learned specs dont tell the whole story.
...

I can't resist a guess: Dodge Omni GLH Turbo?

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

I can't resist a guess: Dodge Omni GLH Turbo?

Surely decent brakes rules out a yank tank Mark I'll guess Nissan Fairlady/ 300Z

 

[perterra]

I can't resist a guess: Dodge Omni GLH Turbo?

:-O Real close, one of the Shelby Chargers :-O Bumped the boost to 15 psi and it would scream.

 

[perterra]

Surely decent brakes rules out a yank tank Mark I'll guess Nissan Fairlady/ 300Z

Nah, the Shelby series had big brakes and everything one off. Very little would interchange with any other Dodge of the time. Front and rear wheels were different size and had so much negative camber built in that it drove like it was on rails at high speed, and it also wore the inside of the Goodyear gatorbacks out in 6 months and since they were different size and uni-directional they couldnt be rotated. With the boost at 15 psi it was a giant killer.

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

Nah, the Shelby series had big brakes and everything one off. Very little would interchange with any other Dodge of the time. Front and rear wheels were different size and had so much negative camber built in that it drove like it was on rails at high speed, and it also wore the inside of the Goodyear gatorbacks out in 6 months and since they were different size and uni-directional they couldnt be rotated. With the boost at 15 psi it was a giant killer.

Sounds like a heap of fun and apologies for going OT:t:

Rich

 

[Kammerdiner]

:-O Real close, one of the Shelby Chargers :-O Bumped the boost to 15 psi and it would scream.

Ah yes, I had completely forgotten about that one! The air dam would have been the clincher clue--had I remembered the car ever existed.

 

[perterra]

Ah yes, I had completely forgotten about that one! The air dam would have been the clincher clue--had I remembered the car ever existed.

It was a little beast. Was the Turbo I series breathed on a little, would have been a nice little car if it had been slightly detuned in all aspects. My ex bought a 84 Daytona turbo I automatic, and it was a really enjoyable little car. Less horsepower, more weight, no rattles and more enjoyable to drive on trips.

 

[jan van daalen]

Troubled Lee, John

Thanks guys for pointing out for me how to conduct business.
Oefff.... that pressure!

If you're in the business for the long run you sell what the customer needs, not what you want to sell,
Why do most (we have them all) salesmen only have the complete line of Swarovski on display and not the complete Zeiss or Leica line?
Because Swarovski sells!!
In real life it is 70% Swaro, 20% Zeiss and 10% Leica.
Divorsky my ass.
If you can't pay the price, don't roll the dice. It's the same for Leica and Zeiss.
Why is there only Swaro on display? Quality sells!!
Blame it on Swarovski. Sure.

John is right with his remark that the Zeiss message is unmistakenble.
The next step is gonna be to get the salesmen to show the complete Zeiss lines on display and to have them to be able to educate the customer.
Only then I see a future for the 3 tier strategy.
The short run is pushing. The long run is education.

Jan

 

[FrankD]

Jan,

You can't overlook the fact of marketing and advertising dollars. Swarovski makes an excellent product but one of the primary reasons why they might outsell other brands, at least here in the states, is advertising. You can't open a hunting or birding magazine without seeing huge page--filled ads showcasing their products. They were also very smart in getting their product in the hands of recognized celebrities and authorities within both industries.

Seeing a favorite birder or hunting guide hold one of their products in a public setting goes a long way in the minds of the average consumer. That is certainly with the understanding that they have a top tier product with excellent customer service.

If Leica, Zeiss or even Nikon invested as much in the same manner then I don't think you would see the situation being as lopsided as it is.

 

[perterra]

Quote Perterra: accelerated like a scalded dog

Hey PT

Is this a texas thing, scalding dogs?
Over here, in our version of the saying, its poor old cats that get scalded.
Its also cats that get caught on hot tin roofs.

BTW agree with you and James about the tests. Its all useful stuff providing you keep it in proportion and above all develop your own ideas.

Lee

We do have some sayings that confuse, that may be one. I'm so used to it I never notice.

 

[jan van daalen]

Jan,

You can't overlook the fact of marketing and advertising dollars. Swarovski makes an excellent product but one of the primary reasons why they might outsell other brands, at least here in the states, is advertising. You can't open a hunting or birding magazine without seeing huge page--filled ads showcasing their products. They were also very smart in getting their product in the hands of recognized celebrities and authorities within both industries.

Seeing a favorite birder or hunting guide hold one of their products in a public setting goes a long way in the minds of the average consumer. That is certainly with the understanding that they have a top tier product with excellent customer service.

If Leica, Zeiss or even Nikon invested as much in the same manner then I don't think you would see the situation being as lopsided as it is.

Frank,

IMO the customers (surely the ones who can afford a Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski) have enough braincells to choose and will not let them being pushed to a choice.

Surely marketing and pr helps in sales, but all the marketing and sales in the world won't make you nr.1 if the product isn't.
So yes, I think the HT line is absolute from the same high level as the SV and the same counts for the FL versus the EL.
But is was not because of marketing and pr that made the EL the winner by far is sales. It was the fact that the customer didn't want a bin with an reinforced glassfibre housing. Zeiss did not listen to the market!! They thought they could dictate the market what it needed, in this case a superior housing design. Their mantra on this subject was; it is fully leakproof, it is much more impactresistant then magnesium and it is spacecraft technology.
Only the majority of the users did not like a "plastic" housing round a 1.800,00 euro bin.
The EL was succesfull because of the open bridge design and the magnesium alloy housing. Not just for pr and marketing.
Zeiss is listening now!!
The advertise more and the designs are much better.
So let the games begin.

Jan

 

[perterra]

Troubled Lee, John

Thanks guys for pointing out for me how to conduct business.
Oefff.... that pressure!

If you're in the business for the long run you sell what the customer needs, not what you want to sell,
Why do most (we have them all) salesmen only have the complete line of Swarovski on display and not the complete Zeiss or Leica line?
Because Swarovski sells!!
In real life it is 70% Swaro, 20% Zeiss and 10% Leica.
Divorsky my ass.
If you can't pay the price, don't roll the dice. It's the same for Leica and Zeiss.
Why is there only Swaro on display? Quality sells!!
Blame it on Swarovski. Sure.

John is right with his remark that the Zeiss message is unmistakenble.
The next step is gonna be to get the salesmen to show the complete Zeiss lines on display and to have them to be able to educate the customer.
Only then I see a future for the 3 tier strategy.
The short run is pushing. The long run is education.

Jan

Do you have some link to back up this claim that swaro sells more than Zeiss and Leica combined? I'm not trying to be a horses ass, but the claims dont seem to be backed by what little sales reports Swaro puts out.

Seriously, Swaro has dumped a bucket load of money into marketing, others not so much.

It's starting to sound like you are worrying about the Zeiss marketing strategy. If Swaro really is so superior, you have nothing to lose. Especially with the Zeiss Conquest as just acceptable, you can retire soon for sure.

 

[jan van daalen]

Do you have some link to back up this claim that swaro sells more than Zeiss and Leica combined? I'm not trying to be a horses ass, but the claims dont seem to be backed by what little sales reports Swaro puts out.

Seriously, Swaro has dumped a bucket load of money into marketing, others not so much.

It's starting to sound like you are worrying about the Zeiss marketing strategy. If Swaro really is so superior, you have nothing to lose. Especially with the Zeiss Conquest as just acceptable, you can retire soon for sure.

Perterra,

I'm in this business since 1993 and seriously in optics since 2000 and think in all modesty to know a little tiny bit of this business. Maybe just enough to say things out loud in all integrity.
If this make me sound worrying to you, than thanks for your concern 8-P .

Jan

 

[Hermann]

Have you tried an 8x30 EII? It is THAT good and then some. But it's not a roof. If there were an 8x roof with as good optical performance and as wide a FOV, you wouldn't be asking Zeiss to make one.

As Jan would say, I rest my case.

I have tried the EII. Even had one for a while. But I think it's not *that* good optically - I find the SE is quite clearly better, even in the centre. And neither the EII nor the SE are binoculars I'd want to use for everyday birding, not in my kind of climate. They're alright for those nice, warm, dry days, but not really during the wet season or at the coast.

So I think I'll wait for Zeiss ... Won't take too long, from what I've heard.

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

Do you have some link to back up this claim that swaro sells more than Zeiss and Leica combined? I'm not trying to be a horses ass, but the claims dont seem to be backed by what little sales reports Swaro puts out.

I've no idea what the sales figures are like, but in Europe Swarovskis outnumber Zeiss (and Leica) by something like 7 to 1 at birding hotspots at the moment. And both Zeiss and Leica representatives admit quite openly they have to do a lot of catching up. From what I hear both companies are working on this ...

Hermann

 

[perterra]

Perterra,

I'm in this business since 1993 and seriously in optics since 2000 and think in all modesty to know a little tiny bit of this business. Maybe just enough to say things out loud in all integrity.
If this make me sound worrying to you, than thanks for your concern 8-P .

Jan

Jan, I have been in 100% commission sales since 1977. I have learned it is not a slight to be asked to verify your info. Theres nothing worse than giving someone misleading info on a $75,000 order. (I have, it's no fun to realize you just lost a $7,000 dollar commission check because someone misled you) I dont feel slighted if someone asks me for proof of what I have claimed, I dont see where you should.

Your making a lot of hay out of something, that I cant see why. If you sold Zeiss and felt they werent delivering on what they say I could see the complaint.

I'm not knocking you Bud, you have supported and fed yourself so you arent stupid. But if you cant see the reason behind the Zeiss move I think you have had a limited exposure to sales in general.

Again, no slight intended but in my opinion the gentleman doth protest too much.

 

[perterra]

I've no idea what the sales figures are like, but in Europe Swarovskis outnumber Zeiss (and Leica) by something like 7 to 1 at birding hotspots at the moment. And both Zeiss and Leica representatives admit quite openly they have to do a lot of catching up. From what I hear both companies are working on this ...

Hermann

Hermann, no offense man but I would guess Europe is not the whole market Swaro is shooting for. I would be surprised if North America isnt just as large a market. I'm also not convinced birding is the largest market (I could be wrong and am willing to accept I could be wrong on both counts, I just require someone show me). Everything I have read in sales reports proudly boast of crystal with not even an honorable mention of binocs.

I'm not knocking Swaros product, it is an excellent binocular. But I think maybe the reports of Zeiss's death have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[lmans66]

I wouldnt call it pointless, it just doesnt delve in to the minutiae of specifications that I would say most dont care about. Scientific testing gives you absolutes, but absolutes dont give you a feel of how well it all works together, just gives you what the intruments tell you. All the shaprness in the world brought to light by the most expensive glass known to man means little if they dont fit or feel right.

Agreed....I have seen many postings on this site that are just specifications....But you need reviews like this Cornell one to place all the spec postings into perspective. I have an HT and while the specs of all the Alphas look impressive, the real pedal to the metal is when you 'field test' them...and speak in layman language.

 

[Mike Penfold]

Frank,

IMO the customers (surely the ones who can afford a Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski) have enough braincells to choose and will not let them being pushed to a choice.

Surely marketing and pr helps in sales, but all the marketing and sales in the world won't make you nr.1 if the product isn't.
So yes, I think the HT line is absolute from the same high level as the SV and the same counts for the FL versus the EL.
But is was not because of marketing and pr that made the EL the winner by far is sales. It was the fact that the customer didn't want a bin with an reinforced glassfibre housing. Zeiss did not listen to the market!! They thought they could dictate the market what it needed, in this case a superior housing design. Their mantra on this subject was; it is fully leakproof, it is much more impactresistant then magnesium and it is spacecraft technology.
Only the majority of the users did not like a "plastic" housing round a 1.800,00 euro bin.
The EL was succesfull because of the open bridge design and the magnesium alloy housing. Not just for pr and marketing.
Zeiss is listening now!!
The advertise more and the designs are much better.
So let the games begin.

Jan

Yes.

Good/timely warranty/repair service doesn't hurt either.

Mike