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Do the owners of both Zeiss SF and Swarovski EL/NL feel they are uncomfortable for the different color cast? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Passakorn
- Start date
Yup. One thing I learnt about color is that no single individual or group has the whole story, but usually when a bunch of people come together and look at a thing some consensus and respect eventually emerges.I think we’re saying the same thing ….. you’re just using more words.
Edmund
kimmik
Well-known member
Hi Edmund, what transmission range would you consider flat transmission?
Is 420-650nm adequate, or 400-700nm? Or even 380-750nm
I ask because Nikon and Leica have a long history of extending transmission beyond 700nm, which is clearly important to them.
Whereas swaro seems to discard 650-700nm without much sympathy, leading to worse red gamut.
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Kimmik, post 63,
Due to my work I have spent long hours behind the exit slits of a monochromator. 700 nm light and further does not play a strong role in observations by eye. That is different for the spectral region 650-700nm since that can contribute to a more "warm"color representation of a binocular image as you can see in spectra of different binocular makers. Light beyond 700 nm plays a less important role in the vision process, but you can try yourself: buy a monochromator and an appopriate color filter and observe the surrounding scene.
Gijs van Ginkel
Due to my work I have spent long hours behind the exit slits of a monochromator. 700 nm light and further does not play a strong role in observations by eye. That is different for the spectral region 650-700nm since that can contribute to a more "warm"color representation of a binocular image as you can see in spectra of different binocular makers. Light beyond 700 nm plays a less important role in the vision process, but you can try yourself: buy a monochromator and an appopriate color filter and observe the surrounding scene.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Kimmik,,
In addition to my previous post I invite you to look at figure 11 in my review paper "Color vision, brightness, resolution and contrast in binocular images" to be found on the WEB-site of House outdoor. It shows the spectral sensitivity curves of the human rods and cones. The curves start to drop fairly sharp from 600nm to longer wavelenghts. Light beyond 700 nm has a fairly low contribution to the vision process compared to shorter wavelenght light.
Gijs van Ginkel
In addition to my previous post I invite you to look at figure 11 in my review paper "Color vision, brightness, resolution and contrast in binocular images" to be found on the WEB-site of House outdoor. It shows the spectral sensitivity curves of the human rods and cones. The curves start to drop fairly sharp from 600nm to longer wavelenghts. Light beyond 700 nm has a fairly low contribution to the vision process compared to shorter wavelenght light.
Gijs van Ginkel
kimmik
Well-known member
Gijs,
Wikipedia defines RED as approximately 625-740nm.
If we don't value 600nm+, then indeed we get worse red colour rendering.
If we make the same argument on the other end of the spectrum, we can degrade blue/violet transmission as colour vision is insensitive to that region too.
BLUE: 450-495nm
VIOLET: 380-435nm
Then all we are left with is green. But it will be bright and sharp.
Wikipedia defines RED as approximately 625-740nm.
If we don't value 600nm+, then indeed we get worse red colour rendering.
If we make the same argument on the other end of the spectrum, we can degrade blue/violet transmission as colour vision is insensitive to that region too.
BLUE: 450-495nm
VIOLET: 380-435nm
Then all we are left with is green. But it will be bright and sharp.
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Kimik, post 66,
I do not care what wikipedia says, but as an experimental physicist/spectroscopist I know very well how the different colors are divided in the visible spectrum and how that interferes with the sensitivity curve of the eye. But you are right that 600nm light is very well visible and contributes to the overall image quality and color reproduction of a binocular. But we were not talking about 600 nm light but about 700-750 nm light. If you look at the transmission spectra from the different producers all their binoculars have a good transmission at 600 nm some even rather high. The point is how do the transmission spectra match the spectral sensitivity of the eye and, as I wrote before, you can read that from my review paper "color vision, brightness, resolution and contrast in binocular images"published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
I do not care what wikipedia says, but as an experimental physicist/spectroscopist I know very well how the different colors are divided in the visible spectrum and how that interferes with the sensitivity curve of the eye. But you are right that 600nm light is very well visible and contributes to the overall image quality and color reproduction of a binocular. But we were not talking about 600 nm light but about 700-750 nm light. If you look at the transmission spectra from the different producers all their binoculars have a good transmission at 600 nm some even rather high. The point is how do the transmission spectra match the spectral sensitivity of the eye and, as I wrote before, you can read that from my review paper "color vision, brightness, resolution and contrast in binocular images"published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
kimmik
Well-known member
You brought up 600nm, not me. I've read your review paper, it is interesting thank you.
I'll repost the role model EDG spectrum here.
courtesy of allbinos.
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Kimmik, post 69,
Perhaps I did not get your point correctly, but I hope that the context of my story made sense in connection with the material in my review paper.
Gijs van Ginkel
Perhaps I did not get your point correctly, but I hope that the context of my story made sense in connection with the material in my review paper.
Gijs van Ginkel
tenex
reality-based
There has been some recent discussion of a period when the last FL 32s got reddish outer coatings which seemed to increase contrast but led to what many considered a green cast, compared to the previous purple ones that seemed more natural. I tried a VP when they were fairly new which I remember had purple coatings, so it would be interesting if they switched to red ones (was that so on your first?) and then changed back.
kimmik
Well-known member
Since canip introduced bf to chatgpt, here is what it says about colour of a binocular view :
"Tell me about colour accuracy vs colour neutrality in binoculars"
Color accuracy and color neutrality are both important factors to consider when choosing binoculars.
Color accuracy refers to the ability of binoculars to reproduce colors as they appear in nature, without any color shift or distortion. This is particularly important for activities such as birdwatching, where accurate color representation is critical for identifying different species. Binoculars with good color accuracy will provide a more vivid and natural-looking image.
Color neutrality, on the other hand, refers to the absence of any color bias or tint in the image. Neutral-colored binoculars will show colors as they appear in nature, without adding any extra warm or cool tones to the image. This can be important for applications such as astronomy, where a neutral image can help to accurately identify stars and other celestial objects.
In general, color accuracy is more important for most outdoor activities such as birdwatching or wildlife observation, while color neutrality may be more important for certain applications such as astronomy. However, the choice of color accuracy versus color neutrality ultimately depends on personal preference and the specific needs of the user.
:"Tell me about colour accuracy vs colour neutrality in binoculars"
Color accuracy and color neutrality are both important factors to consider when choosing binoculars.
Color accuracy refers to the ability of binoculars to reproduce colors as they appear in nature, without any color shift or distortion. This is particularly important for activities such as birdwatching, where accurate color representation is critical for identifying different species. Binoculars with good color accuracy will provide a more vivid and natural-looking image.
Color neutrality, on the other hand, refers to the absence of any color bias or tint in the image. Neutral-colored binoculars will show colors as they appear in nature, without adding any extra warm or cool tones to the image. This can be important for applications such as astronomy, where a neutral image can help to accurately identify stars and other celestial objects.
In general, color accuracy is more important for most outdoor activities such as birdwatching or wildlife observation, while color neutrality may be more important for certain applications such as astronomy. However, the choice of color accuracy versus color neutrality ultimately depends on personal preference and the specific needs of the user.
Evidently.
If there are no superimposed emission lines, and the phosphor has the right distribution, then I guess we might call it “neutral”.
I didn’t realize we were discussing artificial light, I thought the discussion was about transmission of the light reflected into binoculars by birds etc. under (presumably) natural light. Daylight, from the sun.
If there are no superimposed emission lines, and the phosphor has the right distribution, then I guess we might call it “neutral”.
I didn’t realize we were discussing artificial light, I thought the discussion was about transmission of the light reflected into binoculars by birds etc. under (presumably) natural light. Daylight, from the sun.
tenex
reality-based
A chatbot doesn't "understand" anything, i.e. that these are not independent terms. This is the obvious reason why naive use of them means trouble. For the less obvious one, try asking it whether it likes birds...
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