Downy or Hairy Woodpecker? (14 Viewers)

[Bluetail]

Yep, crispycreme has a very good point here... I stick to my previous identification: Downy all the way!!!

But, like the nasal bristles, wouldn't the head shape depend on the bird's stance and how it's holding its feathers? Isn't it one of those things where you'd need a series of photos to be sure exactly what the true head shape is? Since the bird in the pic is facing slightly away from us I don't think one can rely much on how the nasal bristles appear, nor (since it's tensely clinging to the tree trunk) on how the head shape looks in this single pic. I'm only surmising this, though, and I defer to those who know both species well.

Jason

 

[Katy Penland]

Unlike the scaup spp, head shape is not diagnostic for either of these two woodpeckers, and they don't look at all different in the field. Of course, head feathers raised in alarm or in wind can give the appearance of "shape", as can the bird twisting simply its neck.

We have Hairy woodpecker as year-round residents on our property so when we see a Downy, the difference in the bill (and overall size of bird) is striking. Unless we can get a better photo of Lassa's bird, we all may have to agree to disagree on what this is.

But it really is a Hairy.

Edit: Just for kicks, I took the cropped photo and added a red line where a Downy's bill would end based on what I've seen in the field, not what's in the guides, which, BTW, vary greatly as to proportion from one guide to the next (e.g., Peterson's Downy looks more like Sibley's Hairy).

 

[gthang]

Awww, for the helluvit, I am going to go with this ID:

it is a Dairy Woodpecker.

This way, I'll be right, no matter what!

 

[Grousemore]

Unlike the scaup spp, head shape is not diagnostic for either of these two woodpeckers, and they don't look at all different in the field. Of course, head feathers raised in alarm or in wind can give the appearance of "shape", as can the bird twisting simply its neck.

We have Hairy woodpecker as year-round residents on our property so when we see a Downy, the difference in the bill (and overall size of bird) is striking. Unless we can get a better photo of Lassa's bird, we all may have to agree to disagree on what this is.

But it really is a Hairy.

Edit: Just for kicks, I took the cropped photo and added a red line where a Downy's bill would end based on what I've seen in the field, not what's in the guides, which, BTW, vary greatly as to proportion from one guide to the next (e.g., Peterson's Downy looks more like Sibley's Hairy).

I see what you mean about the Guides,Katy;I've checked mine and deduce that by following Sibley Field Guide East,it is a probable Hairy,by Sibley's 'Birding Basics',it is a definite Hairy.
However,Nat Geo. makes it a probable Downy and Peterson a definite Downy.
Of the photo Guides,Stokes Eastern makes it a probable Downy and Smithsonian,'Birds of N.America' makes it a definite Downy(even says that bill on Hairy.."is nearly as long as head is deep".
So that clears this one up...

Thank goodness I've seen them both in the 'Field' !!

 

[crispycreme]

Unless we can get a better photo of Lassa's bird, we all may have to agree to disagree on what this is.

Nah, I'm not dead set on it. I'll defer to those who regularly see these birds in their neck of the woods. I've only seen each once, and, after reading through this thread, I'm not sure I got either of 'em right now! :eek!:

 

[lassa8]

Okay, here are all of the pictures that I took of it this morning. And I'm not sure if it helps, but I have a sound clip of it drumming at my webpage. http://www2.truman.edu/~d2172/sound/woodpecker.wav (53.7 kb)

 

[gthang]

sure looks like a Dairy to me.

 

[Katy Penland]

I'm wrong. Based on these new photos, even though the bill angle still isn't helpful, the black spots on the rectrices are clearly visible. Here are the two best shots with the contrast bumped way up.

Looks like a Downy, all right. Who was it said in another thread he sucks at photo IDing? I just joined his club!

Thanks, Lassa, for the additional shots!

 

[gthang]

I still think it's a Dairy. Notice the long bill and dark spots on tail.

 

[Jane Turner]

I've only seen Eastern race Hairy - which was a little longer billed than this.. isn't the mid-west race shorter billed though.

If I'd found it myself I'd have gone for mid-west Hairy since i didn't spot the tail!

 

[Jane Turner]

Could it have lost /moulted/worn off its bill tuft thing - hence making it look longer-billed?

 

[oldsquaw]

It looks like a Downy to me. The bills very by sexes of the bird. This bill seems to thin and not heavy at all. Just my opinion. Van

 

[Tero]

I have seen tons of downeys and a few hairies. I never am that certain if they are far away. The male Hairy seems to have a prominent bill, and live in nature, I am pretty sure of it. In pictures, I still can't see it. I did see a Hairy and Downy in the same tree, so that time I got the Hairy down on my LIST 100% sure!

 

[Katy Penland]

Could it have lost /moulted/worn off its bill tuft thing - hence making it look longer-billed?

LOL! Good question, Jane. I have not seen anything about this specifically in the literature I have (or have googled), but it is not unreasonable that could happen.

Even in the last 5 pics that Lassa provided, a couple of them show a much longer bill than I've ever seen on a Downy, but those tail spots are diagnostic against Hairy (except for the west US coast where Hairy *does* have the spots). Like you, had I seen this bird myself in the field, in Missouri, I would have immediately tagged it a Hairy -- until seeing those spots.

However, in doing a little more digging, Hairy can have these same spots in Newfoundland and Pacific northwest. Had it been one coast OR the other, I would say that rules out a spotted Hairy for Missouri which is south-central to both. Now I'm not sure all over again what Lassa's bird is.

Note to Admins: We need a smiley for throwing up one's hands in despair.

 

[Gaga]

Based on these new photos, even though the bill angle still isn't helpful, the black spots on the rectrices are clearly visible.

So, I didn't hallucinate those dark spots on the rectrices in my first post...

And, I still don't understand why you find that this bill is so long... for me, that bill is a typical downy... half of the head. Katy, in your pic with the red line, you put that line to about 20-25% of the head length. I've never seen any downy with a bill that short...

Anyways, for me that's 100% downy!

 

[Dave B Smith]

Well I hope it's not to late to join the fray! I would go with Lassa8's field impression, Downy. Photo's are great aides and can often catch detail we missed when watching, but if you saw it and thought the bill was short enough to be Downy, then it probably was. Even the photo looks like Downy to me.

Did you notice its voice? That is supposed to be distinctive. Can you make out any detail in the outer white tail feathers? Downy has black bars / spots on those white feathers while Hairy does not.

I was in the local state Park today (currently visiting at home in Florida for a few days) and watched a female Downy for about 10 minutes. They are cute little birds!

 

[Katy Penland]

So, I didn't hallucinate those dark spots on the rectrices in my first post...

LOL, Gaga, no, but I sure couldn't see them on that first picture, even sucking it into other software. In the next batch Lassa provided, they were visible on two of the photos. Clearly, younger eyes are an asset. However, see my earlier post for the occurrence of spots on Hairy. Dave, you too -- Hairy *does* have spots, depending on region where found.

And, I still don't understand why you find that this bill is so long... for me, that bill is a typical downy... half of the head. Katy, in your pic with the red line, you put that line to about 20-25% of the head length. I've never seen any downy with a bill that short...

Well, without a photo taken at less of an angle, the length of the bill is still open to debate as far as I'm concerned. If you look at the 5 later photos, at least two of them show a much longer bill than any Downy should have.

Anyways, for me that's 100% downy!

I'm glad that you were so sure. I wasn't, so I questioned it. I'm still only about 96-97% convinced this is Downy , but Lassa is the one who has to decide based on what was seen in the field. As Dave said, photos are great aides -- I would add, but only under ideal shooting conditions.

 

[snowyowl]

I get both Downies and Hairies at my feeders everyday but the first picture still left me unsure. Althought the bill looked too fine to be a Hairy that could have been caused by the background colour. Looking at the last string of pictures I go with Downy. A Hairy would have a distinctly heavier bill, particularly at the base. The length, I think, tends to be deceptive based on camera angle etc.

 

[gthang]

This Week:

Downy or Hairy?

 

[Bluetail]

Is that bill for real?

Jason