What were the S/N of the Leica 8x32 BN's you tested? Leica improved the coatings after 145XXX.
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Finally, I found a pair of Leica BN 8x32's on eBay. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter [email protected]
- Start date
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
It was the 8x32 BN with the new coating.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel
Thanks! Did you know the S/N? I don't really buy your transmission figures on the BN 8x32 of 75-77% because it doesn't agree with what I am seeing. I agree more with Allbinos results and their opinion that there is not a lot of difference in the brightness of the BN and the UVHD+. Are you sure you didn't test an older model BA? Even the 10x42 BN Allbinos tested 12 years ago had an 87% transmission.
Leica Trinovid 10x42 BN - binoculars review - AllBinos.com
The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.
Last edited:
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Dennis,
I do not care who measured something different, we did our measurements very caefully and our research department has about 80 years of experience with all kinds of spectroscopy so we know very well what we are doing.
The group was established in 1935 with the generous support of the Rockefeller Foundation. If you are interested I can supply you with the book that was written in 2010 for the occasion of its 75-th birthday, it is well illustrated and can keep your thoughts a little bit away from the terrible question: "what is the best binocular and will I keep it or not".
Gijs van Ginkel
I do not care who measured something different, we did our measurements very caefully and our research department has about 80 years of experience with all kinds of spectroscopy so we know very well what we are doing.
The group was established in 1935 with the generous support of the Rockefeller Foundation. If you are interested I can supply you with the book that was written in 2010 for the occasion of its 75-th birthday, it is well illustrated and can keep your thoughts a little bit away from the terrible question: "what is the best binocular and will I keep it or not".
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Dries 1, post 45, Not necessarily and in the best case they are identical or almost identical. I have mentioned that before: when we started our transmission measurements, the companies wanted to know how we did it so we received a number of test samples to measure and they were also measured by the company itself and next to it by a company in Germany that is responsible for proper standards in this matter. We turned out to be perfect in line with the measurements of the company and with the data of the institute for optical standards. Not so bad, so we concluded that our work was OK
We just finished measurements of some historic binoculars and then you can find transmission values of 25- 40%..
With regard to the Leica BN's: it depends quite a bit in what year they were made and which coatings are used. Gary Hawkins mentions in his short study on the history of Leitz/Leica roofs, that the BN series was supplied with another/updated coating as the BA series.
With older roofs with an aluminum mirror coating or a silver mirror coating on the Schmidt-Pechan roof surface that does not have perfect light reflection: oxidation of the metal mirror can lead to decreasing light transmission.
Mike F, post 36: a transmission difference of 3% or more is noticeable as a general rule but the eye quality of the observer can also be of influence. But do not expect a sort of night view if a particular binocular has a 5% lower transmission: the image is simply a tiny bit less bright.
The spectral composition of the transmitted light also plays a role in the observed image quality: more blue looks brighter, more red slightly dimmer, so binocular makers can play with it.
Gijs van Ginkel
We just finished measurements of some historic binoculars and then you can find transmission values of 25- 40%..
With regard to the Leica BN's: it depends quite a bit in what year they were made and which coatings are used. Gary Hawkins mentions in his short study on the history of Leitz/Leica roofs, that the BN series was supplied with another/updated coating as the BA series.
With older roofs with an aluminum mirror coating or a silver mirror coating on the Schmidt-Pechan roof surface that does not have perfect light reflection: oxidation of the metal mirror can lead to decreasing light transmission.
Mike F, post 36: a transmission difference of 3% or more is noticeable as a general rule but the eye quality of the observer can also be of influence. But do not expect a sort of night view if a particular binocular has a 5% lower transmission: the image is simply a tiny bit less bright.
The spectral composition of the transmitted light also plays a role in the observed image quality: more blue looks brighter, more red slightly dimmer, so binocular makers can play with it.
Gijs van Ginkel
Good post, and if I could offer one additional thing. Gils, you will have better luck setting a new world record in the 100 meter dash in the next Summer Olympics than attempting to reason with the OP.
dries1
Member
Gijs,
Post #47, I am sure your work is excellent and I am not questioning the values. I guess that when folks compare binoculars of the same format and brand they can be different if they are not the same specific glass - especially the older ones with the silver coatings, god knows it took me a while to find BN samples that were clean.
Post #47, I am sure your work is excellent and I am not questioning the values. I guess that when folks compare binoculars of the same format and brand they can be different if they are not the same specific glass - especially the older ones with the silver coatings, god knows it took me a while to find BN samples that were clean.
I just find it odd that I can compare my Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W which has 95% transmission to my Leica Trinovid BN 8x32 which has 75% transmission in the daylight I don't see a big difference in brightness. Maybe in the daylight, transmission is not as important as in low light. So if you don't use your binoculars a lot in low light, high transmission is probably not as significant. A Leica Trinovid BN 8x42, even with a lower 75% transmission, would be brighter than a Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W with a higher 95% transmission in low light, correct because of the big difference in aperture? How much aperture do you need to make up for a 10% lower transmission? What is the relationship between transmission to aperture?
Last edited:
tenex
reality-based
How are you judging it? I suspect the "mellow" quality you're talking about in BN vs UV is largely the result of somewhat lower transmission on a bright day, where higher transmission can look a bit washed out or less contrasty or sparkly (people have used various terms). In dimmer light, lower transmission will prove more of a disadvantage.
Sometimes I think my BN is just as good as my UVHD+, but either it's another sunny day in Colorado or I'm feeling sentimental. I'd never part with it.
dorubird
The unskilled mechanic blames his tools!
Large differences in light transmission (let's say more than 5%) can be seen in daylight not only at night (it also matters the quality of each person's vision).
If there are differences in light transmission , during the sunny day, the binoculars with higher transmission will have that sparkling in the image. Swarovski Habicht 8x30 has that famous day time clarity not only due to the resolution but also to this detail sparkling given by the higher light transmission.
From my observational experience I have found that the light transmission matters more during sunny day time than in the night time!!! In the night time the importance changes in favor of the exit pupil, when exist pupil of binoculars (and aperture/opening) becomes more important. In strong light our eyes exist pupil is small anyway, so the differences in the perceived luminosity are given more by the transmission of light. Of course light transmission also have its importance in the night in brightness perception just as the opening of the binoculars also have its importance during the day time, but their importance "ranking" it changes depending on the available light.
If there are differences in light transmission , during the sunny day, the binoculars with higher transmission will have that sparkling in the image. Swarovski Habicht 8x30 has that famous day time clarity not only due to the resolution but also to this detail sparkling given by the higher light transmission.
From my observational experience I have found that the light transmission matters more during sunny day time than in the night time!!! In the night time the importance changes in favor of the exit pupil, when exist pupil of binoculars (and aperture/opening) becomes more important. In strong light our eyes exist pupil is small anyway, so the differences in the perceived luminosity are given more by the transmission of light. Of course light transmission also have its importance in the night in brightness perception just as the opening of the binoculars also have its importance during the day time, but their importance "ranking" it changes depending on the available light.
Last edited:
Good Posts! Very interesting and I agree with you. Dorubird you posts some very intriguing ideas!
Don't part with the BN! You will be sorry. The price on the used market on BN's keeps appreciating. Higher transmission correlates with a sparkly image. I like that, and I agree!
Last edited:
So now you have an Habicht 8x30 as well? Well that's a surprise, don't recall you mentioning that one a few days ago when you listed your current binoculars. Or are you just relying on memory to make the comparison??
I found out that if you get a Bino Bandit for the Habicht 8x30 W it helps a lot with glare coming from the sides of the eyepieces and eye placement with those little eye cups, and it does. It makes the Habicht a binocular that is pretty enjoyable to use outside of it still has a tight focuser, but I must admit every time I go back to one the view wows me! I bought a Habicht 8x30 W for $980 shipped DHL from the Teleskop-Express in Munich, Germany which is an excellent seller, and they have most of the Habicht's for fantastic prices, and they ship fast. 3 days from the time I ordered it to get it too my door! Now I am going to have a duel between the Habicht 8x30 W and the Nikon E2 8x30.
Teleskop-Express
www.teleskop-express.de
Last edited:
I sent my 8x32 UVHD+ off to a friend to use until I sell them off and kept the 8x32 BN because although I can tell a difference between the two, it's only in certain lighting that I noticed a preference for the Ultravid. I'm keeping the 8x32 BN, and like you, I'll not be parting with mine either.
