Gretna starling roost - how many?? (2 Viewers)

[Wells-man]

If you want to see a really big starling roost, try the Somerset levels. Estimates at Westhay (or Ham something?) are of anything from several hundred thousand to several million birds.

I travelled over from Hampshire in Feb 2007, and was lucky. (The roost apparently occasionally moves from one reserve to another). I have no idea how any birds there were, other than it was a hell of a lot more than I could count.

Worth a special trip once we're well into the season. It really is one of the wonders of the world.

K.

PS just checked the 'net. See http://www.rspb.org.uk/reserves/guide/h/hamwall/index.asp ,which gives a useful phone number. Presumably this would reduce the risk of a wasted trip to the wrong site.

 

[Stewart J.]

Depending on weather intend birding English Solway coast then onto Gretna Starlings over the weekend if anyone else is going to be there.

Stewart

 

[dantheman]

If you want to see a really big starling roost, try the Somerset levels. Estimates at Westhay (or Ham something?).

Ham Wall (as your link says). Have you seen there is now a Somerset thread in the local patch section?? You ought to repost your starling post in there . . . but not necessarily because I suggested so lol )


I remember seing vast flocks in the daytime just over the border in Wiltshire near Stourhead years and years ago - millions probably correct.

 

[oncebittern]

Just in from another trip up to Gretna, and they didn't disappoint.

I watched from the Services access bridge over the motorway. I parked up in the Services car park, then walked back - only took a couple of minutes, and was well worth while. The birds DID roost in the woods at the back of the Services, and the view from the bridge was excellent. Being at tree-top level gave stunning views of the birds falling out of the flock and into the trees - almost like a tornado in reverse at times.

Some birds even dropped down into the trees between the motorway and the services, so a very clear view was had of those.

I couldnt see the actual roost site by the B7076, but I could see the sky just above it, and whilst I think some birds probably went down there, it wasn't many.

It was a great evening, with all the swirls and twists seen against grey and pink sunset clouds. I walked round the back of the Services after they were all in, and the noise had to be heard to be believed! Next time, I'm going to try positioning myself there, right next to the roost, to see how it looks at close quarters. Note to self: wear a big hat

Took some more video, so when I've had time to edit it, I'll post it to Birdforum.tv again.

 

[Stewart J.]

Showed the Gretna roost with the weather on BBC Look North this evening, wonder if it was tonight or library footage, sunset lead up looked similar to tonights.

Stewart

 

[DJW]

Article in The Sun on Tuesday.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1918280.ece

Dave

 

[oncebittern]

"Showed the Gretna roost with the weather on BBC Look North this evening, wonder if it was tonight or library footage, sunset lead up looked similar to tonights"

Looked at last night's Look North online, and it looks like it was indeed yesterdays action.

I've just added another bit of video from last night too:

http://www.birdforum.tv/members/action/viewvideo/1234/Gretna_Starling_Roost___Take_Two/

 

[oncebittern]

Depending on weather intend birding English Solway coast then onto Gretna Starlings over the weekend if anyone else is going to be there.

Stewart

If you do, when you are driving N up the A74M, across the big bridge over the Esk, cast your eyes to the left. I had a fleeting glimpse of what I 'think' was a group of about 10-12 little egrets in the fields. I was driving alone, and the view wasn't great, but they just looked too pure white to be almost anything else.

Couldnt see any way of getting a close view though, apart from stopping mid roadworks on the M-way - not recommened apparently!

Will try to equip my wife with the video camera next time we drive that way together, and maybe get a more positive ID.

 

[oncebittern]

Back at Gretna again last night, and came away somewhat disapointed. I went to the layby to watch from, and (as always seems to happen to me), they went down to roost in the trees behind the services!

More disapointing though were the numbers - impossible to put a figure on (for now), but I would say only about 15-20% of the number I have seen on my previous 4 visits this year.

Temperature of late has been as low as -8 C...could this have driven many of them further south?

On the up-side though, the video I took managed to capture the entire flock in some frames, so when time allows, I'll try and do a fairly accurate count.

 

[Sandra (Taylor)]

Back at Gretna again last night, and came away somewhat disapointed. I went to the layby to watch from, and (as always seems to happen to me), they went down to roost in the trees behind the services!

Steve -

Our trip up to Gretna & then west has been called off for the moment - guest house & cattery cancelled. Weather forecast for tomorrow & Friday pretty grotty. Does this mean the starling roost will start to drop in numbers quickly? How long have we got to think about a trip? May just go up on a Saturday and stay one night.

Sandra

 

[oncebittern]

Does this mean the starling roost will start to drop in numbers quickly?

Sandra

Not sure really, but the 'performance' was over in about 5 minutes, as opposed to the 25-40 minutes we had been seeing before.

Weather forecast at 21.00 was for 6-8 inches of snow overnight, so I wouldn't get too excited about driving up here tomorrow

Steve.

 

[PaulMulholland]

I wouldn't know how to count birds in a flock that size :eek!:- I don't think the traditional methods really work, hence my appeal. But it might be worth a try. Or perhaps some regular watchers have a better way of estimating numbers.

Count the number of wings and divide by two.:t::-O

 

[Sandra (Taylor)]

Not sure really, but the 'performance' was over in about 5 minutes, as opposed to the 25-40 minutes we had been seeing before.

Weather forecast at 21.00 was for 6-8 inches of snow overnight, so I wouldn't get too excited about driving up here tomorrow

Steve.

Yes, I saw the same forecast - and not good for Dumfries area tomorrow.
See my post above yours.

Sandra

 

[oncebittern]

On the up-side though, the video I took managed to capture the entire flock in some frames, so when time allows, I'll try and do a fairly accurate count.

OK, well I've counted them! Not individually of course, but based on the photo below (original was at a much higher resolution, but I've reduced it here so I could upload it), and taking what I perceived to be a pretty average rectangle, with a pixel size of 200x100, I did a count of a little over 2000 birds. Averaging that across the entire flock worked out to 67 rectangles, so an approximate total of 134,000 birds in the photo.

Now bearing in mind that the number of birds that night were way down on what I had seen on my previous visits, (I'm going to say about 15%, but again, that's only MY perception), that makes my final estimate of the number of birds seen previously, and as seen in the videos I uploaded...

...very nearly 1,000,000

And if anyone want to prove me wrong, please feel free to do a re-count

 

[Jhanlon]

Nice work Steve & cheers for the PM. That's the sort of thing I was after. I'd toyed with the idea of doing it myself but found the flock just too mind-boggling :eek!:. However I may now make a more determined attempt and by direct comparison with your photo. It would be great to have some kind of software which could help say by detecting varying density in the flock and translating into numbers as the birds are rarely evenly distributed in the image.

I saw the flock early November 2007. Have you seen similar numbers that early in the season?

OK, well I've counted them! Not individually of course, but based on the photo below (original was at a much higher resolution, but I've reduced it here so I could upload it), and taking what I perceived to be a pretty average rectangle, with a pixel size of 200x100, I did a count of a little over 2000 birds. Averaging that across the entire flock worked out to 67 rectangles, so an approximate total of 134,000 birds in the photo.

Now bearing in mind that the number of birds that night were way down on what I had seen on my previous visits, (I'm going to say about 15%, but again, that's only MY perception), that makes my final estimate of the number of birds seen previously, and as seen in the videos I uploaded...

...very nearly 1,000,000

And if anyone want to prove me wrong, please feel free to do a re-count

 

[oncebittern]

I saw the flock early November 2007. Have you seen similar numbers that early in the season?

I've not been to Gretna before this year, so my 4 visits over the past 6 weeks is all I have to go on. The first 3 times were all about the same, with about 1m birds each time. The last time, when I got the photo I used, was a couple of weeks ago, during that really cold snap we had (down to -8), and I suspect that the coldness drove a lot of the birds further south. Haven't been back since to see if the numbers have restored, but as and when I do, I'll let you know.

 

[Stewart J.]

Roost visit 26/12/2008

Hi All and seasons greetings.

Visited again yesterday, birds started arriving 15.55 with some big
distant flocks to both east & west. Many of the flocks joined together
forming a huge flock which slowly wheeled overhead on east side of
motorway then another huge flock formed over on west side.

Birds gave the impression of being unsettled and unsure of which roost
wood to use, This wheeling continued till almost dusk then many went
into the west side wood roost, many thousands more dived into the wood
on roadside 80-100 metres south of east side lay-by and all the time
several hundred thousand wheeled overhead, a small flock dived into
the usual eastern wood.

Then almost on dusk the birds erupted out of both west wood and small
south wood and all went to roost into the usual eastern wood.

Not behaviour I've witnessed before a wonderful spectacle against a
clear orange sunset. Bird numbers much much higher than previous visit
on 23/12 estimate at least a "million"!! probably more. I've never been so spattered especially my car in all my visits:eek!:

So a good time to visit at moment especially with this settled cold snap which is also forecast for next few days.

Only raptors seen were 3 Buzzards and an unsuccessful chase by a
female Sparrowhawk.

ATB

Stewart

Lot of people there many non birders just marvelling at the show and when the biggest flock was in sky over the motorway vehicles were actually slowing to look at it?.

 

[brianfm]

I made my first visit to the Gretna roost on 14/01/09 after a visit to Grune point. The spectacle far surpassed my expectations and lasted almost 30 minutes with Peregrine Falcon, Common Buzzards and Sparrowhawk up there amongst the Starlings. I managed to get my bins focussed on the Peregrine at one point as it reached out attempting to snatch a bird. It was the sheer numbers that make this such fantstic wildlife experience and it certainly ranks up there with my best. I have seen it all on the tv a number of times of course, but nothing can beat being there and having the sky turn black with birds directly above your head. I have seen small flocks preparing to roost in Newcastle, but never in such numbers and not for some years now.

My gut reaction at the time was that there must be several 100,000 Starlings. In my mind I compared it to a full house to watch Newcastle Utd and thought that area covered and size difference between a supporter and a Starling suggested that a full gate at St James ought to be mutipied several times in respect of the Starlings. Yes, I know that isn't very scientific, but I felt it made sense to me! ;-) Actually the reason I'm checking this thread is to see if there is any estimate of numbers. I think Steve has taken a more scientific approach than I and like him, and I think Stewart, I could well believe there was circa 1 millon Starlings. I assume they are at their peak numbers at present and a cold winter may well have brought extra numbers from Europe.

One other thing I left wondering about and discussed with level seven who was there with me, was just how large an area these birds might fly in from each evening. We were told last year that the small, in comparison, roost at Mersehead may well have joined up with the roost at Gretna. I guess that Mershead is about 40 miles away.

Our visit was a reccy for an RSPB group visit on the 17th, tomorrow, so I'm hoping that we get a repeat performance. Excellent stuff, and just what makes birding such an exciting pastime. Had a brief view of Tawny Owl on the way home too. btw Grune Point is an excellent birding area.

 

[Stewart J.]

Hi Brian, will be interesting to see your report from tomorrow, gale force winds forecast! I'm driving down from Scotland or would have joined you guys,

Hope you have a good night.

ATB

Stewart

 

[brianfm]

Hi Brian, will be interesting to see your report from tomorrow, gale force winds forecast! I'm driving down from Scotland or would have joined you guys,

Hope you have a good night.

ATB

Stewart

Yes, I've seen the forecast Stewart. but we are hoping the rough weather may hold off until the evening. Fingers crssed. Pity your not around as it would have been good to meet up.

I'll be writing up a report of the trip on Wed which took in Talkin Tarn as well as Grune Point and Gretna. Once done I'll let you know where to find it and also how we come on tomorrow.

Best wishes