Has anyone seen the new Meopta spotting scope (7 Viewers)

[Binoseeker]

Bitterroot,
Ok and thanks for your reply. Please tell us when your new review is at hand

Mayoayo,
I wonder if this type of "error" is ok within manufacturer specification ?
It would have been nice if manufacturer could present specifications to which their optical instrument is made, so we would know what to expect when buying like an "expensive" spotter and doing our own tests ...

Thanks,

Anders

 

[Kammerdiner]

I've had the Meopta S2 30-60x WA for a few days, but haven't had much time to use it. Also, the dealer sent me the straight scope instead of the angled that I ordered, so it will have to be exchanged.

It's a truly nice scope, though. I had it side-by-side with a Swaro ATM 80 HD 25-50x, and I preferred the Meopta. Yes indeed. The Meopta has better contrast and color, does better on backlit subjects, and shows more detail with the 60x magnification. Also, the eye placement seems a little friendlier than the Swaro. Although they both give some blackouts, the Meopta gives less, and has a bit more eye relief. The zoom ring is stiff. At low mag the Meopta does have a lot of what I would call AMD, not really barrel distortion, per se. Very noticable, but you don't really see it unless you're panning. It makes an 8.5 SV look tame by comparison though.

The focus is very fast (I put it at 1.2 turns from a minimum of about 15 feet to infinity, but 1.1 sounds about right too). It works fine though because it's stiff. I didn't find myself overshooting best focus because you come up on it slower because of the extra effort.

I'll post more details after I get the angled version. Unless I go nuts and exchange it for the ATX.

Overall, I'd say Meopta has a winner with this one.

Mark

 

[mayoayo]

Kammerdiner...Maybe You could do a bit of a Star test with the straight scope,..Since You are getting the angled scope as well will give You ( and us!)an insight in the overall average optical characteristics of the scope..I am interested in the scope and als to know what meopta says about Binoseeker´s Scope SA....

 

[Kammerdiner]

Kammerdiner...Maybe You could do a bit of a Star test with the straight scope,..Since You are getting the angled scope as well will give You ( and us!)an insight in the overall average optical characteristics of the scope..I am interested in the scope and als to know what meopta says about Binoseeker´s Scope SA....

I've never tried to star test a scope before, but I'll see what I can do. Could I use a little 8x20 Ultravid for that I wonder? I'll search the threads for instructions on star testing. It may take a couple days because I'm really busy at work right now .

Mark

 

[Binoseeker]

I didn´t have any extra optical instrument, like a dobler, just looked at the image with my eyes, i could see the rings "inside focus" but not "outside focus". I looked at a bright star at night and at a solar reflex from a car...both gave same image with the disk. I will see if i can use like a magnifying glas perhaps..

Mark, that seems great, your comparison with Swaro....

Mark & Mayoayo, thanks for your replies..

Anders

EDIT: Switched "inside" for "outside" according to Henry´s advice.

 

[henry link]

Anders,

You don't need any extra optical instruments. A 60x star-test is good enough to show the typical problems in spotting scopes.

We should make sure we're on the same page regarding "inside" and "outside" of focus. "Inside" means moving the focus to a more distant setting, toward infinity or past infinity if you are using a real star. "Outside" means moving the focus to a closer setting. If this were a conventional astronomical refractor you would be moving the eyepiece forward toward the objective lens to move inside of focus and backwards to move outside of focus. You're describing over-correction (strong rings outside of focus and no rings inside), but spotting scopes are usually under-corrected, which causes the opposite pattern.

What you are looking for is symmetry between the inside and outside of focus diffraction patterns. In a perfect telescope the inside and outside diffraction rings look essentially identical. Spotting scopes aren't usually that good, but some specimens of some scopes are. I'm afraid no diffraction rings at all on one side of focus is not a very good result, suggesting worse than 1/4 wave optics and less than diffraction limited resolution. Unfortunately, even expensive spotting scope units are sometimes that bad or even worse when you throw in other possible defects like astigmatism, pinched optics or a poorly made roof prism.

Ultimately, you are likely to have to accept something less than perfection unless you are in a position to test many specimens of the same scope. The trick is to avoid the outright lemons and find a unit at least good enough to show all the detail your eye should be able to see at 60x through an 82mm scope.

Henry

 

[BruceH]

Cabela's is now listing a "Euro" spotting scope with a 20 - 70X eyepiece.

Cabela's Euro Scope Link

It is currently on back order. I read on another site it sold out in one day but Cabela's should have a new shipment in a couple of weeks.

Am I correct in assuming this is the same as the Meopta S2 HD, but in Cabela's markings? If so, then one can take advantage of Cabela's promotions, but the downside is only the 20 - 70X eyepiece is listed.

Edit: You have to look for it, but the Cabela's page has a link to a "Product Video" where the Meopta General Manager makes some brief comments on the Euro scope.

Edit 2: Here is a YouTube link to the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj5sUB0pA68

 

[Bitterroot Birds]

Bruce,

The Cabelas scope is the Meopta S2. Cabelas runs a line of Meostar products under their own "Euro" label. The only real difference is the customer would go through Cabelas rather than Meopta USA for warranty. The fact that these products are identical is not a secret that either Cabelas or Meopta keeps.

As far as spherical aberration goes, I would be surprised if the s2 I examined had excessive spherical aberration (as far as spotting scopes go), because apparent sharpness was quite good, it snapped into focus, and provided easy viewing.

 

[BruceH]

Bitterroot Birds ... Thanks for the confirmation. I was aware of the binocular Euro/Meopta relationship and figured it was the same type of deal with the new scope.

 

[Bitterroot Birds]

Bitterroot Birds ... Thanks for the confirmation. I was aware of the binocular Euro/Meopta relationship and figured it was the same type of deal with the new scope.

There is a line of Euro riflescopes as well, but these are from the mid level Meopro line and not the top shelf Meostar line.

I tested a binocular, riflescope, and the spotter, and all of them showed wonderfully rich contrast which made for impressively saturated views.

 

[Binoseeker]

Henry,

Sorry, I have misunderstood the meaning of inside/outside focus...i have experienced the diffraction disk with the rings "inside focus", moving focus to a more distant setting. So the problem with blurry disk is "outside focus" so it is undercorrected which is a more common problem with scopes, as you say.

It shall be interesting to hear from meopta if this "error" is within their specification for the scope :smoke:

Thanks,

Anders

Ps: i will try to edit the review i wrote...no 25 is corrected but the review, no 16, wasn´t possible to edit!

 

[Kammerdiner]

Well, I managed to star test the Meopta--at least I think I did. Henry is right as usual, you can star test a scope in bright daylight at 60x. I had never even tried. I used the sun reflecting a pinpoint off a convex brown ceramic electrical insulator on a utility pole, maybe 60 yards away. Nice clear day here as well making it easy.

I think I saw the same thing Binoseeker did. When I focused past the point (inside focus) I saw really nice rings, sharp and symmetrical.

When I focused before the point (outside), the rings were pretty well obscured. I could see them a little, but nothing like the other way.

I did the same with my Celestron 80mm Regal ED and got similar results. Focused past the point gave nice rings (but not as nice as the Meopta), focused before the point gave even less rings than the Meopta.

The Meopta is CCW to infinity by the way; the Celestron CW.

Are my astigmatic eyes involved in this at all?

Anyway, that's what I saw. I'm still not sure what it means--except I guess it could be better?

I still preferred the Meopta to the Swaro, but maybe that one wasn't perfect either.

Mark

 

[RJM]

Here is an aberration reference pic and a pdf for methodology to help you figure this out.

Still a star test can be a little like reading tea leaves even in ideal conditions. Even more so when conducted at relatively low mags on the glitter points found in our natural environment. Astigmatism and coma are the easiest to interpret but can also be affected by the glitter point source.

Most important to remember is that the various aberrations seldom present themselves in isolation, but in combination with others. And it is best to have a reference optic of known optical quality setup for simultaneous comparison.

Really the only scientific method for determining quality of an optical SYSTEM like a fieldscope with any precision is an MTF test, which requires cameras, test charts, and expensive software.

 

[Kammerdiner]

Thanks, Rick. Both of those are helpful. I think the only thing I can conclude from my little experiement is that it would be wrong to conclude too much. I think 60x is good enough to see astigmatism and coma probably (I saw none) but anything beyond that, with my eyes, would be rather speculative. All I can say with certainty is that one side of focus was quite different than the other, one had nice rings, the other not so much.

A real star test, boosted, would probably be much more useful.

Anyway, this straight Meopta has to go back (I ordered the angled and got this straight by mistake). Maybe go nuts and get the Kowa?? The ATX??? I'm heading to Florida for a week's birding and I'll need something!

Mark

 

[henry link]

The examples Rick posted are for mirror scopes with central obstructions. I don't have time now, but I'll try to find some refractor images later today. Believe me, 60x is enough magnification in these small telescopes. If significant problems are present, you'll see them.

 

[Kammerdiner]

Ah, Henry, Rick. How do you put up with some of us neophytes? Patience of Job. Thanks.

Mark

 

[HeavyG]

This book is probably an easy read that will tell the laymen all they could ever wonder about star testing their optics

https://www.willbell.com/tm/tm5.htm

 

[Binoseeker]

I got this kind reply from Meopta today:

Actually this only proves the quality of MeoStar S2 spotting scope as its performance is almost diffraction limited.

Due to its quite fast aperture (1:5,3) the objective lens diffraction effects are negligible, the 1st Airy disk in focus is very small and the eyepiece doesn’t magnify it enough to see it. For seeing the Airy disk in focus we recommend to use additional small telescope behind the eyepiece (dioptermeter or similar) having 5x-10x power.

Any comments on that ?

Well, have to try to use a bin and look in the ocular then, with the scope at 60x, and in focus as i understand it, and inside & outside focus also of course

Anders

 

[Kammerdiner]

I think it means that I--at any rate--don't know what I'm talking about.

Learned gentlemen, I cede the field (of view).

Mark

 

[henry link]

I've only got time for a quick contribution. Check out the star-test photos of a Vortex Razor in this post and the Zen-Ray scope in the linked review. They're not as clear as what the eye sees at the eyepiece, but they demonstrate the kinds of things you find in spotting scopes.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2315981&postcount=6

Yes, HeavyG, Suiter is the Bible of star-testing and about as easy a read.

He recommends using a magnification about equal to the diameter of the objective lens in mm, so that's 82x for and 82mm scope. 60x is close enough for our purposes. You don't really have to see a large image of the focused airy disk. All the information needed to evaluate a spotting scope is visible in the out of focus diffraction rings from about 2 rings of defocus to about 8 rings defocused. That's easy enough to see at 60x.

Henry

Edit: Kimmo Absetz' star test photos in post # 11 of the Zen-Ray review thread show a star-test of a better scope, which probably looked even better through the eyepiece.