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Help with compact 30/32mm Alpha Choice (1 Viewer)

Hello Bird Forum members. I have been studying this site for years, soaking in the immense collective wisdom of this group. I truly appreciate the value of this site and the contributions of its members. I would love your help and guidance as I try to decide on my next optics purchase.

I recently had my vehicle burgled and my binoculars and spotting scope were absconded with leaving me in a dilemma on what to replace them with. I am looking for recommendations on a compact 30/32mm alpha binocular. My priorities are 1) Sharpness/clarity in the center of image, 2) Easy relaxing view (I define ease of view as having forgiving eye placement and an immersive view; ie. not tunnel like), 3) Glare Control.

A little bit of background about myself. I am a rancher in the wide-open planes of South Dakota. I am also a wildlife enthusiast and dabble in birding. I use binoculars every day to help me do my job and, more importantly, soak in the beauty and intrigue of my surroundings. I have a set of binoculars with me wherever I go. They generally ride on the dash of my truck but also move with me to whatever mode of conveyance I am using (horse, tractor, ATV, boat, foot). My optics get treated kind of roughly and I value the build quality of alpha/near alpha companies because of this.

For the past 5 years I have relied on a pair of Swarovski ELSV (field pro model). These bins held up well to my treatment and served my purpose. I did have a few objections to these. First, and most damning, was the severity of veiling glare. In the wide-open planes with unrelenting sun I could not look anywhere withing 90 degrees of a rising or setting sun without having either bright crescents or completely washed-out views. The second, less severe, issue was with the focus mechanism. When riding on the dash (or on my chest) the focus would slowly turn itself completely in one direction (not sure which way) so that every time I picked them up I would have to completely re-focus. It seemed to me that there must have been a spring of some sort in the mechanism that would pull the focus back as the binoculars bounced and vibrated. I did notice that the focus resistance was significantly different depending on which way I was spinning the wheel. The last issue I had was compactness. Although the ELSV32 was thin it was a long binocular making it a little harder to shove into a coat pocket or stow away discretely.

In regard to ease of view, I do not wear glasses and my face shape means that I wish almost every available pair of binoculars would come with slightly longer eyecups. The easiest eye-placement and most immersive view I have ever got in a 32mm bin was with NL 32's. With the NLs I can shove the eyepieces deep into my sockets and move my eyes freely around the view. The worst was with MHG30's. With these it was difficult to get my eyes positioned in the first place and then any eye movement would cause complete blackouts.

My other set of binoculars is a 2012 SLC 42mm. I use these as a reference standard as I really like the view, they do well with glare, and they have decent ease of view/easy eye placement. I cannot shove the eye pieces all the way into my eye-sockets but I can easily find a comfortable position that allows me to see the full field of view and even move my eyes around the image slightly without blackouts. I do have some minor trouble with blackouts during panning. In a perfect world I will be able to find a compact 30/32mm bin that is at least as good as my SLC.

I think I have narrowed my search down to 3 choices. Ultravid HD+ 32, SFL 30, or the old model CL-Companion. Call me vein but I just hate the looks of the new model companions. I could be persuaded to abandon compactness for an NL32 but they seem to have the same glare problems as my old ELSV.

I have been trying out a set of Leica Ultravid HD+ and I really like them, the image quality and glare control is amazing. The only issues I have with these are the "slight" tunnel like view and the long monobridge design that I can’t wrap any fingers around. The view through the UVHD32 is more tunnel like than the SLC. The UVHD32 ease of view/eye placement is nearly identical to the SLC. How would the old model CL, or the SFL compare to this regarding my 3 criteria above?

Sorry about the long post but I wanted you all to have as much context as possible. Thank you in advance for your opinions and experience.

Bob
 
If you are investigating the Leica Ultravid 8x32 HD plus, it is in my opinion worthwile to also look at the Meopta 8x32. Quite a bit cheaper as the Leica and the performances were for a large part identical, see the reports on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
My priorities are 1) Sharpness/clarity in the center of image, 2) Easy relaxing view (I define ease of view as having forgiving eye placement and an immersive view; ie. not tunnel like), 3) Glare Control.
This list immediately makes me think of Zeiss FL 32, which can still sometimes be found in near-new condition, although UVHD+ could also work if you find it sufficiently "sharp" in the center, and its view is more similar to your SLC in overall character. Also the MeoStar mentioned by Gijs.
The view through the UVHD32 is more tunnel like than the SLC.
How so? If you're talking about 8x, the real FOV is practically identical and both are conventional (not flat-field) designs with substantial pincushioning so they should give a very similar impression. (Are you being misled by something about the eyecups?) If you're willing to consider 10x, both FL and HD+ are very nice and will seem more immersive, at least as I define that. FL 10x32 in particular should suit your anatomy; it's the only bin whose eyecups I've ever had to use at less than their full extension.
 
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both are conventional (not flat-field) designs with substantial pincushioning so they should give a very similar impression.
I know I will sound like a wise-cracker ;) but flat field has nothing to do with pincushion distortion. There are flat field binos with or without it. Flat field just means everything in the same distance to the observer will be sharp when the bino is focused at that distance. Even flat field binos will have some pincushion distortion most of the time or you will get rolling ball effect.
Examples of binos with almost no pincushion but field curvature: Kowa BDII -- rolling ball effect and fuzzy edges.
No pincushion and no curvature: Komz 7x30 BPO -- rolling ball effect and sharp edges.
Flat field but some pincushion: DDoptics Lux HR or Canon 8x32WP -- no rolling ball effect and sharp edges.
 
Unfortunately neither the SFL 30 or old model Swaro CL will work based on your description. The old model CL has an even narrower FOV than the current model, so if the Leica UV feels too "tunnel like" then the Swaro CL will be worse. Also, although some opinions differ, most seem to feel the prior CL wasn't quite as sharp as it should be.

The SFL 30mm is nearly on the nose for what you want (size + optics) but if the MHG30 gave you the eyecup / blackout issues common with these small 8x30 models then you'll almost certainly have a similar issue with the 8x30mm SFL model.

So that pretty much leaves the 8x32 Leica Ultravid, which seems to check all the boxes except for a slightly less-than-ideal FOV. Although I will note the "tunnel view" may be to some degree due to the incredible interior blackening / stray light control of Leica UV's, to which I at least partially attribute their delicious color contrast / black levels. It's really a black tunnel in there, which was not my experience with the Swaro 32mm SV model (e.g. colors appearing slightly washed out / desaturated in comparison to Leica UV or Nikon EDG in my experience).

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Perhaps when you get used to the deep black background of the Leica you'll be less bothered by the "tunnel effect" as in my experience the 7.8deg FOV is more than adequate in my personal real world use (not just with the Leica, but also Nikon EDG 8x32/42) and only feels "less than" in direct comparison to models with 8+ deg FOVs.

The Meopta Meostar 8x32 is a worthy alternative as noted above, and it has that slightly wider FOV you want as well nearly-as-good optical performance to the Leica. And excellent build quality and glare control. The negatives in this context relative to the Leica are (1) the Meopta is slightly larger and heavier and (2) the Meopta is notorious for its teeny weeny eyecups that don't extend far enough for non-eyeglass wearers. This can be mitigated with a DIY hack adding a larger rubber covering over the stock eyecups to increase diameter/length slightly, so that may be an option for a truck bin.

An alternative NOT mentioned that I would recommend instead is the Kowa Genesis 8x33mm. It's not quite as compact as the Leica UV (not much is) but it is small enough, and under 600g weight. Optics are great, they offer first rate brightness and color accuracy, a wide 8+ deg FOV, and razor sharp center field with almost zero CA. And excellent glare control. Big soft eyecups give good comfort for non-eyeglass wearers, definitely a "smush them into your eye-sockets" pair of bins (the primary reason why I would suggest them over the Meopta if you want to save $$ vs the Leica). The only real negative of the Kowa is they degrade off axis more quickly than the others noted, Kowa's "flat field" implementation is not as well executed as Swaro SV or Nikon EDG so there's a ring of distortion about 60-70% of the way out to the edge where it transitions from slight pincushion to slight barrel distortion, then it actually gets slightly sharper near the edge. So the extreme off-axis view isn't quite as natural as that in the Leica UV or Swaro SLC, but within the central 50-60% of the field it's 100% alpha caliber IMO.
 
I know I will sound like a wise-cracker ;) but flat field has nothing to do with pincushion distortion.
Saying that BLTs and Clubs are both "sandwiches with bacon" doesn't preclude sandwiches without bacon. I just mentioned two characteristics UV and SLC have in common, versus (say) the OP's ELSV. Of the two, it's pincushioning that would affect AFOV, but I never quite know what anyone means by terms like "tunnel" (or "3D" or "immersive") especially when I see no difference myself.

That said, to continue repeating things we both know we both know, no "flat field" binoculars with "substantial pincushioning" are actually made today*, certainly not at the higher end of the market discussed here (where more complex distortion profiles are used), and even the two budget models you mentioned (whether their pincushioning was comparable to UV/SLC or not) are discontinued. So the two properties are indeed strongly (anti)correlated in practice.

(* Edit: did someone present Canon IS L as the lone exception? I don't recall, and am not familiar with it.)
 
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As Eitan said, you will likely find the eyecups of the 8x30 SFLs to be too short, otherwise they are great. Excellent at glare control and have open barrels for gripping.

The 8x32 FLs & 10x32 FLs would probably work as far as eyecup length goes, but have very little barrel exposed.
 
WOW! Thank you all for your replies.

One thing I should have stated is that I prefer a 10x given the wide open country I am in. All my previous bins, and the uvhd32 I am testing, are 10X.

Maybe tunnel vision is the wrong term for what I am trying to describe. When I look through the UVHD32 I can see the entire field of view. However, the image appears to be a well defined circle within a black field. If I twist the eye cups in completely and hover the bins there is no black around the image circle. In the slc with the eyecups out there is a little less black around the image circle. I tried a cl-p and there was more black around the image circle. With the NL 32 there is very little black around the image.
 
I will have to try the Meostar again. I tried the 8x32 years ago and I remember liking it but I did not spend much time evaluating it.

I have never tried an fl. I have read the image does not have as much contrast as the ultravid. Has this been your experience?

I have a Sfl 10x42 (currently in the classifieds). It is a fantastic bin, at least as good as my slc. I was hopeful the sfl30 would work. Judging by the reviews so far as well as your comments the eye placement will be hard for me.
 
This one’s easy. Zeiss 10x40 SFL. Lightweight and won’t give you blackouts. Don’t buy a 10X in 30 or 32mm. Eye placement is very difficult and blackouts will happen in every model. Plus the brightness will be a problem. The SFLs are awesome and perfect for your part of the country.
 
I would try a Nikon Monarch MHG 10x42
I tried the MHG 10x42 shortly after it came out. I was sure it would be the perfect truck bin. Sadly I had trouble with eye placement and blackouts.

This one’s easy. Zeiss 10x40 SFL
You might be right. The 10x40 SFL I currently own are just about perfect. I was really hoping I could scale down to be more compact.

How so? If you're talking about 8x

Are you being misled by something about the eyecups?)

Although I will note the "tunnel view" may be to some degree due to the incredible interior blackening / stray light control of Leica UV's,

Tenex and eitanaltman. Could you review my post #9. Maybe you could help me understand the issue I am having or least confirm that I am crazy.
 
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C&G, it seems you've used 10x32s for years (as I have) without the sort of difficulties some others describe, so the question is only which one you want... and there is no perfect bin even among alphas, only a list of trade-offs you have to decide how to make. If you want something more compact than 10x40 SFL (which you didn't mention you also had) or 10x32 EL, either UV or FL 32 could work, but then you have these complaints:

(1) can't wrap fingers around it -- this sounds like something you got accustomed to with ELSV, but if you want something smaller, you'll have to give it up. I find that FL fills the hands a bit more than UV, but still more cupped than wrapped.

(2) "tunnel vision" -- I don't see how it's UV 10x32 that strikes you as problematic compared to SLC 10x42. The apparent field is actually larger in UV (or FL), which should be an advantage. An impression of more black around the field could be created by variations in eyecup size or fit, but isn't really important -- concentrate on the field itself, not what's around it.

I would agree that FL has a bit less contrast/saturation than UV (as your ELSV probably does too) but I like both presentations, as you seem to.
 
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So the two properties are indeed strongly (anti)correlated in practice.
True. Just wanted to prevent confusion on part of the thread starter.
Even the "Lux HR" or the Canon 8x32WP has no "substantial pincushion", just enough to prevent rolling ball, just like they should. However that might just be due to the smallish FoV. But I have one bino with a tiny FoV and still strong pincushion -- that's an old Optolyth 8x30 porro. Kind of a strange instrument that is.
 
Saying that BLTs and Clubs are both "sandwiches with bacon" doesn't preclude sandwiches without bacon. I just mentioned two characteristics UV and SLC have in common, versus (say) the OP's ELSV. Of the two, it's pincushioning that would affect AFOV, but I never quite know what anyone means by terms like "tunnel" (or "3D" or "immersive") especially when I see no difference myself.

That said, to continue repeating things we both know we both know, no "flat field" binoculars with "substantial pincushioning" are actually made today*, certainly not at the higher end of the market discussed here (where more complex distortion profiles are used), and even the two budget models you mentioned (whether their pincushioning was comparable to UV/SLC or not) are discontinued. So the two properties are indeed strongly (anti)correlated in practice.

(* Edit: did someone present Canon IS L as the lone exception? I don't recall, and am not familiar with it.)
My Canon 10x32 IS is a "flat field" binocular that's very well corrected for field curvature and off-axis astigmatism and also has substantial enough pincushion to almost totally correct angular magnification distortion, leaving objects only very slightly radially compression near the field edge. I think the 10x42 IS L is similar across a 5º wider AFOV. The point is that there is nothing to prevent binocular eyepieces from being made with that distortion profile, however infrequently it may be used right now.

As an experiment I cooked up a monocular with "binocular" type optics using a 50mm binocular objective lens combined with a 13mm Televue Nagler eyepiece. The result is a "flat field" monocular with very low field curvature and off-axis astigmatism across an 82º AFOV combined with a huge amount of pincushion distortion, far more than any real world binocular known to me.
 
I own MeoStar B1 Plus 8x32 and absolutely love them. I got them for my wife as a gift that also included a Rhine River cruise and they proved to be a big hit with everyone who looked through them. Luckily I had lot of lens wipes for everyone who tried them out. A buddy who raved and brought his Leica's was disappointed how good the Meopta's are. Great for watching animals on the river banks as well as castles in the fog. They go great with the 12X50's I already own. The brightness of Meopta binos is always impressive.
 
My Canon 10x32 IS is a "flat field" binocular that's very well corrected for field curvature and off-axis astigmatism and also has substantial enough pincushion to almost totally correct angular magnification distortion...
So then we get into whether "flat field" means no curvature or just how little, and how little pincushioning will suffice (and whether it's uniform or more complex), making it hard to stay focused on the point that designs like Swarovision carried these trends arguably too far, and for some reason both at once. Your description of this Canon sounds fairly ideal to me also, and is what I like about SLC 56s, so I'd like to see more binoculars like that with wider fields, and it seems odd that they're not being made.
 
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You can scale down but not without compromises especially low light performance. I’ve owned plenty of 10x in 30-32mm and it convinced me that 10X doesn’t work very well in that objective size.
 
Hi,

very short answer because I have to get on my bike and cycle to work...

Your three priorities are probably best taken care of with either the EDG or the FL - both are class leading in them.

They also have weaker points, the EDG is a bit on the chunky side with 650g as opposed to the 600g of the EL and similar size and the tfov is slightly narrower at 136m/1000m as opposed the 140m/1000 of the EL The image rendition is the trademark warm Nikon view - best compared to Leica but slightly less punchy.

The FL has the slightly cool Zeiss view (a bit cooler than the EL) and the plastic looks are an acquired taste. But it is small and light (560g) and has a wide 140m tfov like the EL.

Joachim
 
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