ID please goshawk or sparrowhawk? october 30th north-east Italy (1 Viewer)

[andreaNcb]

hi there! what do you think? big female sparrowhawk? goshawk?

 

[delia todd]

Hi andrea and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators. I've moved your post to the Bird ID forum; I'm sure someone will be along soon to help you. In the meantime, could you advise where and when you took the photograph please.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

 

[Butty]

Assuming that the location and date are appropriate... looks like northern goshawk: strongly rounded tail-tip, big supercilium, pale underbody.

 

[Simon G]

Assuming that the location and date are appropriate... looks like northern goshawk: strongly rounded tail-tip, big supercilium, pale underbody.

Don't strongly barred secondaries argue against a Goshawk in adult plumage?

 

[andreaNcb]

Hi andrea and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators. I've moved your post to the Bird ID forum; I'm sure someone will be along soon to help you. In the meantime, could you advise where and when you took the photograph please.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

Thank you Delia and everyone here

 

[andreaNcb]

Don't strongly barred secondaries argue against a Goshawk in adult plumage?

Thanks Simon.. I don't know, i can't convince myself but already two of you are telling me that it's a goshawk...

 

[andreaNcb]

Don't strongly barred secondaries argue against a Goshawk in adult plumage?

thanks, i forgot to insert the date and place, it is the end of October, in a hilly/mountainous area of north-eastern Italy

 

[wolfbirder]

Female Sprawk for me, just has the look of the build of one.

 

[andreaNcb]

Female Sprawk for me, just has the look of the build of one.

thanks Nick, that's my doubt, it seems like a big SH female, but i can't convince myself

 

[Andy Adcock]

thanks Nick, that's my doubt, it seems like a big SH female, but i can't convince myself

I get the opposite feeling, smallish, male Gos.

 

[andreaNcb]

Thanks Andy, here another pic, i just found it:

 

[Harrybongo]

Hi by the barring on the secs/primaries, I'm leaning towards, male Goshawk.

 

[andreaNcb]

Hi by the barring on the secs/primaries, I'm leaning towards, male Goshawk.

thanks Harry

 

[tconzemi]

Are you sure both pics show the same bird?
First pic looks typical Gos, a young adult showing still more secondary barring than typical adults, but inner secondaries almost unbarred. Small hand, bulging secondaries and rounded tail all good.
Much less details visible in second pic, first impression was Sparrowhawk

 

[andreaNcb]

Are you sure both pics show the same bird?
First pic looks typical Gos, a young adult showing still more secondary barring than typical adults, but inner secondaries almost unbarred. Small hand, bulging secondaries and rounded tail all good.
Much less details visible in second pic, first impression was Sparrowhawk

Thanks Tom, yes, same bird.... and same doubts

 

[wolfbirder]

thanks Nick, that's my doubt, it seems like a big SH female, but i can't convince myself

It is tricky mate, really tricky. It could be either as others highlight.
It just smacked of Sprawk to me but there are way better birders than myself -.
Hope it gets a consensus.

 

[KenM]

Are you sure both pics show the same bird?
First pic looks typical Gos, a young adult showing still more secondary barring than typical adults, but inner secondaries almost unbarred. Small hand, bulging secondaries and rounded tail all good.
Much less details visible in second pic, first impression was Sparrowhawk

Very flexible geometry Tom, there have been times when I’ve had to torpedo thoughts about hybridization.
The relative “size discrepancy” between the gender according to lit. is very much in favour of Sprawk, which I have to assume is correct however, I do wonder?
Having once only, an almost nonchalant oncoming female sail over my (across the road neighbour’s house), one early grey March morning and she was the biggest that I’ve seen by far…easily as big as a Buzzard.😮

 

[tconzemi]

Very flexible geometry Tom, there have been times when I’ve had to torpedo thoughts about hybridization.
The relative “size discrepancy” between the gender according to lit. is very much in favour of Sprawk, which I have to assume is correct however, I do wonder?
Having once only, an almost nonchalant oncoming female sail over my (across the road neighbour’s house), one early grey March morning and she was the biggest that I’ve seen by far…easily as big as a Buzzard.😮

 

[wolfbirder]

If picture 1 shows a possible adult male Gos, shouldn't it have a blue patch behind the eye, rather than such an open-looking face?
But its hard to tell, with light playing tricks.

 

[KenM]

View attachment 1560455

Pity they didn’t squeeze in a Buzzard.😮👍