ID please goshawk or sparrowhawk? october 30th north-east Italy (1 Viewer)

[Butty]

Small hand, bulging secondaries and rounded tail all good.

Tail-tip shape of bird in pic 2 does look pretty different - sharp-cornered.

 

[wolfbirder]

If it was a male Goshawk, and the bird in question is an adult, then its face would be striking like on this individual below.........wouldn't it? Even accounting for individual variation, I don't see adult male facial markings. Maybe the light is playing tricks on the OP photo.

 

[lou salomon]

To me barring of remiges looks too bold even for a young adult goshawk. I think it's an adult female Sparrowhawk. Also, in a 2cy goshawk I'd expect a visibly stronger barring to breast and a slightly more orangey iris.

 

[tconzemi]

This site is so nice Northern Goshawk flight identification and ageing in the UK - Revised and updated
please scroll down to second plumage Fig 8 and compare with Sparrowhawk Fig 4
See also colour of iris, yellow even in older birds
This said if both pics show same bird, second bird really looks Sprawk, but first is still OK for Gos to me (more comments welcome!) it's an interesting bird anyway

 

[lou salomon]

Yes Tom. And if you compare fig. 8 with the adult female Sparrowhawk (fig. 4 bird d) - look at how irregular and partially disrupted the bars are in all 2nd plumage Goshawk individuals compared to the very neat and regular rows of bars in the female Sprawk...also the dense barring on underwing coverts and breast in 2nd plumage Gos which should be seen as a darker colour in the first pic of the OB.

 

[tconzemi]

Yeah, it's more barring in the OP than in boldest Gos (e) and second pic is clearly a Sprawk, I surrender ;-)

 

[andreaNcb]

It is tricky mate, really tricky. It could be either as others highlight.
It just smacked of Sprawk to me but there are way better birders than myself -.
Hope it gets a consensus.

Thanks mate, tricky indeed ahaha

 

[andreaNcb]

Yeah, it's more barring in the OP than in boldest Gos (e) and second pic is clearly a Sprawk, I surrender ;-)

yeah.. probably a huge female Sprawk then..... cheers