Lynx joins with Cornell (1 Viewer)

[Tom Schulenberg]

New species like Scytalopus whitneyi are still not included in Birds of the World.

Birds of the World follows the eBird/Clements taxonomy, which usually is updated once a year. Potential new species are noted on the BOW website, e.g.,

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/news/newly-described-species-and-subspecies-from-indonesia

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/news/an-epic-year-for-scytalopus

as are some other items of taxonomic relevance, e.g.,

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/new...of-vauries-nightjar-caprimulgus-centralasicus

but the addition of accounts for newly described or newly split species, the loss of an account due a lump, changes in generic names, changes in the sequence of species, all of that good stuff will come in one big lump on the heels of the next release of Clements.

 

[Andy Adcock]

So what will happen to all the QR codes in the Lynx published field guides? I just tried one from a sample plate and it redirected to the photo gallery of the species. Not sure where they went to beforehand? Can QR codes ever point to a replacement website or are they locked into one address forever?

My guess is that they will become redundant, I don't like them anyway, the top of the slippery slope towards the end of the printed book.

 

[James Eaton]

So what will happen to all the QR codes in the Lynx published field guides? I just tried one from a sample plate and it redirected to the photo gallery of the species. Not sure where they went to beforehand? Can QR codes ever point to a replacement website or are they locked into one address forever?

They will be remaining active, just switch across to the new website. I checked on this last year for a review of the Vietnam guide for Birdwatch magazine.

James

 

[ZanderII]

Yes, totally agree. How can this be possible...

Has anyone actually looked at the content?

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/sylvii1/cur/introduction

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/sylvii1/cur/species#genusSylvia

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/barwar1/cur/introduction

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/home?login

free for most of today

 

[viator]

Has anyone actually looked at the content?

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/sylvii1/cur/introduction

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/sylvii1/cur/species#genusSylvia

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/barwar1/cur/introduction

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/home?login

free for most of today

Yes and I greatly prefer the layout and structure of HBW Alive

 

[ZanderII]

Yes and I greatly prefer the layout and structure of HBW Alive

anything in particular?

 

[viator]

anything in particular?

Mostly I think because they've not really completed the job and have dumped HBW content in for non-North American species. There is some great content for Nth American birds that goes way beyond what HBW had so that's good.

When I look at a species from somewhere else you get a big photo and banner taking half the screen (last thing I want first!). It's then a dump of the HBW content sort of restructured into the high-level menu structure used for Nth Am birds but not really making use of that structure in the way it is fully intended - in some cases you need to click a lot more without getting more value.

I think they'd have been better off leaving HBW Alive up - it's simplistic but works well - until they'd migrated properly to what they have for NAM birds even if that is going to take them time.

I also like'd being able to add geo filters that would be applied across the site and using the taxonomy tree right along side the content to change species.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Mostly I think because they've not really completed the job and have dumped HBW content in for non-North American species. There is some great content for Nth American birds that goes way beyond what HBW had so that's good.

When I look at a species from somewhere else you get a big photo and banner taking half the screen (last thing I want first!). It's then a dump of the HBW content sort of restructured into the high-level menu structure used for Nth Am birds but not really making use of that structure in the way it is fully intended - in some cases you need to click a lot more without getting more value.

I think they'd have been better off leaving HBW Alive up - it's simplistic but works well - until they'd migrated properly to what they have for NAM birds even if that is going to take them time.

I also like'd being able to add geo filters that would be applied across the site and using the taxonomy tree right along side the content to change species.

Absolutely!

 

[ZanderII]

Mostly I think because they've not really completed the job and have dumped HBW content in for non-North American species. There is some great content for Nth American birds that goes way beyond what HBW had so that's good.

So the idea is to have BNA-style content for everything eventually. That is a lot of work and will take time.

When I look at a species from somewhere else you get a big photo and banner taking half the screen (last thing I want first!). It's then a dump of the HBW content sort of restructured into the high-level menu structure used for Nth Am birds but not really making use of that structure in the way it is fully intended - in some cases you need to click a lot more without getting more value.

I think they'd have been better off leaving HBW Alive up - it's simplistic but works well - until they'd migrated properly to what they have for NAM birds even if that is going to take them time.

Banners is a personal thing, I like it but you are entitled to your opinion.

The dump is unsightly, but there is a cost associated with maintaining two websites simultaneously and having people use a defunct one which essentially is redundant. They are in the process of editing accounts obviously.

I also like'd being able to add geo filters that would be applied across the site and using the taxonomy tree right along side the content to change species.

No reason why that might not happen. People read this thread....

 

[Snapdragyn]

Well, if people read this thread, it would be nice to have a world where every bit of specialized information is not locked behind a fricking paywall. >/

 

[viator]

No reason why that might not happen. People read this thread....

One more thing for those readers then - add support to let me use IOC taxonomy instead of Clements. If you want people to pay then they should have flexibility on the taxonomy they want to use. It would be easy enough to handle dynamic generation of the content where there are differences.

 

[jurek]

Well, if people read this thread, it would be nice to have a world where every bit of specialized information is not locked behind a fricking paywall. >/

Birdwatchers deserve to have at least one public repository of information of all the world birds. It feels increasingly wrong that thousands of people collect information about birds for free, and somebody collects it and sells them back for money.

I had a free look at Cornell, and, unfortunately, the HBW information needs updating. Especially for species from the beginning of the HBW taxonomy, the distribution is very outdated. I also noted several errors. For example, the description of the song of Golden Nightjar is totally different from the recording linked nearby. Especially confusing were lists of habitats and food which did not separate typical from exceptional. An example: what European bird was recorded nesting on trees and eating bird chicks and small mammals? Great Bittern.

 

[viator]

It feels increasingly wrong that thousands of people collect information about birds for free, and somebody collects it and sells them back for money.

You just stated their business model under the guise of citizen science - there should of course be a return on giving the data which there isn't. If they wanted to charge only people who didn't contribute data it would be better.

 

[njlarsen]

So having access to the tools in the Explore section of ebird.org is not a return on submitting data?

I believe I am still covered by the HBW subscription I used to have, but I have been told that there is a rebate for BotW for Ebird members.

It is a little funny to me how much noice there is about the Cornell lab (a not-for-profit organization) charging and how little there was about Lynx (a private company) charging if you wanted to see more than a couple of lines in each section.

Niels

 

[jurek]

This type of criticism has been going on for years, so it is not that Cornell is singled out. There is more concrete criticism directed at medical publishers, who charge bigger money which is paid indirectly by state health budgets. Simply the attitude towards sharing science information has been developing in the society.

I really think that there should be at least one public, free database of birds of the world to give back to the community which gives free records and free support for conservation. It could double as a conservation / public education tool for bird protection.

For me, as an user, it is rather open who can provide it. One institute, a group of several research institutes, or a big conservation organization (BirdLife as an addition to their data zone?) or China which does not care about overblown intellectual rights.

 

[THE_FERN]

This type of criticism has been going on for years, so it is not that Cornell is singled out. There is more concrete criticism directed at medical publishers, who charge bigger money which is paid indirectly by state health budgets. Simply the attitude towards sharing science information has been developing in the society.

I really think that there should be at least one public, free database of birds of the world to give back to the community which gives free records and free support for conservation. It could double as a conservation / public education tool for bird protection.

For me, as an user, it is rather open who can provide it. One institute, a group of several research institutes, or a big conservation organization (BirdLife as an addition to their data zone?) or China which does not care about overblown intellectual rights.

Amen to most of that. There's always the funding question of course: obviously housing this stuff costs money. No perfect solution but probably Wikipedia comes closest. While BF remains free there's opus too of course. These free to use things only work if there's a philanthropist behind them and/or lots of donors. Bit like conservation, therefore. One day I hope Wikipedia, the internet archive and a.n. other will get proper government recognition and cash

 

[Andy Adcock]

So having access to the tools in the Explore section of ebird.org is not a return on submitting data?

I believe I am still covered by the HBW subscription I used to have, but I have been told that there is a rebate for BotW for Ebird members.

It is a little funny to me how much noice there is about the Cornell lab (a not-for-profit organization) charging and how little there was about Lynx (a private company) charging if you wanted to see more than a couple of lines in each section.

Niels

Quite literally, the only thing I use HBW for is to check for species which may be getting split. They indicate this obviously, even suggesting a a new name for any such split and with a simple layout, so that's all I'm losing really. My biggest gripe with HBW was that they offered no consideration finacially, to those who had stumped up for a set of their books, a not inconsiderable amount.

I use Scythebill as people know, which gets updated whenever the IOC does and that's as up to date as I need to be really. If I want more detailed knowledge, I have books, if I'm doing a trip, there are report sites.

The emphasis as has been said before is shifting, to having all this information, instantly available in your pocket.

 

[Melanie]

RIP HBW Alive. You were a good site :-C

 

[gusasp]

I really think that there should be at least one public, free database of birds of the world to give back to the community which gives free records and free support for conservation. It could double as a conservation / public education tool for bird protection.

For me, as an user, it is rather open who can provide it. One institute, a group of several research institutes, or a big conservation organization (BirdLife as an addition to their data zone?) or China which does not care about overblown intellectual rights.

I know one – Wikipedia! All of us can contribute as of right now. If we work together, we'll have it up to date in no time. I'm actually surprised how little engagement there is to edit this wonderful resource. It's there, ready to use and to contribute to. I try to keep updating on the Swedish Wikipedia, and it's mostly me and another guy.

BTW, does any one know what will happen to the BirdLife International taxonomy now? I know the Tobias criteria approach has its grand problems, but still what a waste to ditch it so soon!

 

[Taphrospilus]

I know one – Wikipedia! All of us can contribute as of right now. If we work together, we'll have it up to date in no time. I'm actually surprised how little engagement there is to edit this wonderful resource. It's there, ready to use and to contribute to. I try to keep updating on the Swedish Wikipedia, and it's mostly me and another guy.

BTW, does any one know what will happen to the BirdLife International taxonomy now? I know the Tobias criteria approach has its grand problems, but still what a waste to ditch it so soon!

But Wikipedia has as well a weak point and it is that everyone can contribute without a real quality of data review. We can find a lot of nonsense in there. At least in German Wiki is not really appreciated to do e.g. your own reseach e.g. about biographies of ornithologists.