Lynx joins with Cornell (1 Viewer)

[Melanie]

One of the weakest points of Birds of the World is that they have not adopted the international vernacular names (German, French, Spanish) from HBW Alive. So I have to go back to the print editions of the HBW or the HBW and BirdLife illustrated checklists.

 

[njlarsen]

One of the weakest points of Birds of the World is that they have not adopted the international vernacular names (German, French, Spanish) from HBW Alive. So I have to go back to the print editions of the HBW or the HBW and BirdLife illustrated checklists.

These and more can be found at Avibase for species and at least some subspecies. https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/avibase.jsp?lang=EN

Niels

 

[DMW]

One of the weakest points of Birds of the World is that they have not adopted the international vernacular names (German, French, Spanish) from HBW Alive. So I have to go back to the print editions of the HBW or the HBW and BirdLife illustrated checklists.

Are you sure about that? The version I have does on the main page, just below the conservation status. Click the Names link.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

One of the weakest points of Birds of the World is that they have not adopted the international vernacular names (German, French, Spanish) from HBW Alive. So I have to go back to the print editions of the HBW or the HBW and BirdLife illustrated checklists.

It gives the vernacular name of each country

 

[Fred Ruhe]

One of the weakest points of Birds of the World is that they have not adopted the international vernacular names (German, French, Spanish) from HBW Alive. So I have to go back to the print editions of the HBW or the HBW and BirdLife illustrated checklists.

Vernacular names are all local names. There is nothing wrong with scientific names, so use them. I am not interested in how an Amarican or an English or a German or a Frensh or a Dutch or a Swedish or a Spanish, Portugese person calls a bird in his own language, let alone how to spell them, I want to know what they are talking about.

It is a sick idea that some organisations wait to accept "new species" before there is an vernacal (read English) name proposed.

Fred

 

[Melanie]

Are you sure about that? The version I have does on the main page, just below the conservation status. Click the Names link.

Okay, thank you. But they don't have included the German names.

 

[pbjosh]

Vernacular names are all local names. There is nothing wrong with scientific names, so use them. I am not interested in how an Amarican or an English or a German or a Frensh or a Dutch or a Swedish or a Spanish, Portugese person calls a bird in his own language, let alone how to spell them, I want to know what they are talking about.

It is a sick idea that some organisations wait to accept "new species" before there is an vernacal (read English) name proposed.

Fred

While the idea is noble, in the end, in most countries, not knowing vernacular names prevents far more communication than knowing scientific names permits.

Who waits to accept new species? SACC for instance waits to implement them in their list, but they do accept them as species. It has happened several times that I can recall that Clements has implemented new species with provisional / supposed English names ahead of formal decisions. Perhaps another authority waits?

 

[DMW]

Okay, thank you. But they don't have included the German names.

A quick check suggests that German names are included for European species, but seemingly not others.

 

[Paul Clapham]

Perhaps another authority waits?

Well, the IOC World Bird List says

"Our primary goal is to facilitate worldwide communication in ornithology and conservation based on an up-to-date evolutionary classification of world birds and a set of English names that follow explicit guidelines for spelling and construction."

So there they are a-waiting, but they don't rank as an "authority".

 

[Fred Ruhe]

Who waits to accept new species? SACC for instance waits to implement them in their list, but they do accept them as species. It has happened several times that I can recall that Clements has implemented new species with provisional / supposed English names ahead of formal decisions. Perhaps another authority waits?

Well, for instance, Peter Kovalik, regulary gives data on proposels, that say that they are waiting on a vernacular (English) name before they recognise the taxonomic proposel.

Fred

 

[jurek]

I know one – Wikipedia! All of us can contribute as of right now. If we work together, we'll have it up to date in no time.

It seems, that in Wikipedia somebody should first became some sort of Wikipedia moderator and have time to watch updates of articles. This is mostly a self-proclaimed function. Then one has some power to keep articles from reverting and it makes sense contributing.

Otherwise, I heard from many serious people that they got burned, because they spent time and effort editing articles and some child reverted it back.

If you can do it on English Wikipedia it would be wonderful. Many bird articles look like abandoned, waiting to be filled with information.

 

[DMW]

It seems, that in Wikipedia somebody should first became some sort of Wikipedia moderator and have time to watch updates of articles. This is mostly a self-proclaimed function. Then one has some power to keep articles from reverting and it makes sense contributing.

Otherwise, I heard from many serious people that they got burned, because they spent time and effort editing articles and some child reverted it back.

If you can do it on English Wikipedia it would be wonderful. Many bird articles look like abandoned, waiting to be filled with information.

I recall that a lot of Wikipedia's bird description editors left after an administrator unilaterally decided that all common names must be lower case, ie. yellow warbler rather than Yellow Warbler. Who wants to waste their time working on a platform where this sort of capriciousness is tolerated?

 

[Andy Adcock]

A quick check suggests that German names are included for European species, but seemingly not others.

Perhaps because they don't have names for them?

I know from my time in Russia for example, they don't have a word for Muskrat so they use 'Ondatra', the first part of it's scientific name.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I recall that a lot of Wikipedia's bird description editors left after an administrator unilaterally decided that all common names must be lower case, ie. yellow warbler rather than Yellow Warbler. Who wants to waste their time working on a platform where this sort of capriciousness is tolerated?

I've actually noticed this a lot on Wiki pages and often wondered why it was.

 

[jurek]

On the positive side, Wikipedia is maintained by a very small community, so just 1-2 birders with enough time could potentially make the bird section a very informative resource.

Basically somebody should have enough free evenings to gently and firmly see off children, who use Wikipedia to learn proper grammar, clearly expressing thoughts etc.

I was very sceptical about Wikipedia initially. I expected it to become overtaken by political and commercial lobbyists, and parts of it are. However it is apparently here to stay, people are posting even some good quality bird photos, so it might become an useful tool for birders.

 

[Taphrospilus]

These and more can be found at Avibase for species and at least some subspecies. https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/avibase.jsp?lang=EN

Niels

But e.g. Pampakolibri is an example where Avibase followed a dubios book here. According DO-G Yukatandegenflügel would be the correct name. As well I found many errors in Avibase e.g wrong or no references. Other examples are e.g Superciliated Wren Cantorchilus superciliaris Lawrence, 1869. Lawrence, 1869 should be in parentheses according the code. Many, many errors (but still a very helpful tool).

 

[viator]

I've actually noticed this a lot on Wiki pages and often wondered why it was.

They have very explicit rules on this which mandate lower case ;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip..._letters#Animals,_plants,_and_other_organisms

This was debated quite some time ago from memory and irrespective of the birding community that is their position.

 

[McMadd]

For info you can access the original HBW texts still if you subscribe to the new thing...hidden nicely under the "Revisions" section as shown in the first screenshot. Not ideal but at least they are somewhere.

As for the species accounts...oh dear...the American-centric-ness really has to change...how can a species account for a native Asian species (Western/Eastern Spotted Dove as the species pair is known in IOC lands) begin by describing the range in California and Hawaii...? All a bit tRump and maga innit...?

Another observation (ho ho) is the merging of taxonomies is causing some reviewers to challenge records that were identified to subspecies level - which is why I was looking at Spotted Dove and Pied Starling accounts in the first place...not my problem if they have the subspecies I saw as rare...I assume some revision of their criteria will be needed...or the record stays in limbo and poor old citizen science does not benefit...

Now I'll eff off again...

 

[Andy Adcock]

Yep, not a globally holistic account really is it but I think we all expected this, hence the unease that many feel at this absorbtion.

Is it typically American not to hyphenate such words as 'nonnative'?

 

[pbjosh]

As for the species accounts...oh dear...the American-centric-ness really has to change...how can a species account for a native Asian species (Western/Eastern Spotted Dove as the species pair is known in IOC lands) begin by describing the range in California and Hawaii...? All a bit tRump and maga innit...?

I think you're going a bit far here. I will be highly surprised if the species account is not updated to reflect global information in due time. As it is, it is a reflection of information from a prior NA focused website / data collection, so it's not surprising at all, given that we know that not all species accounts have been fully integrated / updated.