Malta: Unparalleled slaughter of migrant birds of prey (1 Viewer)

[Jack Dawe]

If Gallina had taken the trouble to browse through these forums he would have noticed that all illegal killing of birds is routinely condemned here, whether it's in the UK, Malta or anywhere else. But, as has been pointed out, the incidents in the UK are simply nowhere near comparable to the situation in Malta. It is not we who are "dragging Malta through the dirt". It is Malta's own hunting lobby. They have the means to clean up their own act if they wish. It isn't happening though, is it?

 

[Gallina]

'The problem is that a team of about 20 police officers have to control 12 000 registered hunters.'

First of all its 20,000 registered hunters and its 35 ALE officers. Living in Malta, you should know.

'The punishment quoted by Gallina was never, I say NEVER given to any hunter to date on this bloody island i happen to live in.'

No never, that's the pity, because I assure you the day it is would be the day we'd see these idiotic acts grinding to a halt.

The point I was trying to make is that I hate to see you publicly condemning Malta and its entire poulation with generalised comments rather than criticising the system and the poachers. It is common knowledge that the UK has a disastrous record in all walks of everyday life, be it murders, rapes, child abductions, robberies, abortions, its involvement in wars, the suspicions surrounding Diana's death, the list is endless. I for one would never slander the whole of the country because of the acts of pockets of people. Attack the poachers and attack the government. They are to blame.

 

[TJW]

I fully agree that to condemn the population as a whole is not only grossly unfair but is also counterproductive.
It is the illegal hunters who deserve the condemnation.

As an outsider I believe that the general public of Malta deserve our encouragement if they wish to reclaim their countryside, the countryside which their families endured so much for. If they believe that a family should be able to go for a picnic without having shotguns fired in their vicinity, ramblers should be able to walk on common land and not see it appropriated by hunters, and that rare creature the Maltese bird watcher should be able to walk without fear in the countryside.

But that is their business. Our business is the flagrant abuse of European law and the illegal shooting and trapping of European birds.

 

[Jos Stratford]

It is the illegal hunters who deserve the condemnation.

And the government for not stamping it out. Let's be honest, if there was the will at the level of government, the slaughter could be reduced significantly. As it would seem, illegal hunters on that island will not be persuaded by sweet words to change their ways, they need to be forced to by enforcement of legislation. The government is failing in its duty to take effective action, therefore it deserves every bit of the condemnation it receives.

At a society level, there is also a very big question - societies vote in governments, societies have certain powers to influence government priorities. If there was sufficient public outcry at the hunting, at the appalling tarnish that it leaves on their nation's image, then there is greater chance the government might actually take its cotton socks off.


But full credit where credit is due, Birdlife Malta and the dedicated Maltese who do support a clampdown on hunting are basically amazing - they must feel they are smashing their heads against brickwalls on occasion, but still they stand up and raise a voice, well done.

 

[CrimsonTopaz]

Is the petition still up and running CT? Does anyone know the contact details for the man from Birdlife International on Malta?

Anyone care to be the Martyr Jos and Steve are keen for???? I'm too old, honest, Steve is quite young and fit though!

:C

Yes, ive found this link for any one who wishes to sign...
http://www.petitiononline.com/malta06/petition.html

 

[John Cantelo]

It is common knowledge that the UK has a disastrous record in all walks of everyday life, be it murders, rapes, child abductions, robberies, abortions, its involvement in wars, the suspicions surrounding Diana's death, the list is endless. I for one would never slander the whole of the country because of the acts of pockets of people.

.... you just have!

John

 

[Collster]

'The problem is that a team of about 20 police officers have to control 12 000 registered hunters.'

First of all its 20,000 registered hunters and its 35 ALE officers. Living in Malta, you should know.

'The punishment quoted by Gallina was never, I say NEVER given to any hunter to date on this bloody island i happen to live in.'

No never, that's the pity, because I assure you the day it is would be the day we'd see these idiotic acts grinding to a halt.

The point I was trying to make is that I hate to see you publicly condemning Malta and its entire poulation with generalised comments rather than criticising the system and the poachers. It is common knowledge that the UK has a disastrous record in all walks of everyday life, be it murders, rapes, child abductions, robberies, abortions, its involvement in wars, the suspicions surrounding Diana's death, the list is endless. I for one would never slander the whole of the country because of the acts of pockets of people. Attack the poachers and attack the government. They are to blame.

Put pressure on your government then, this issue is just dragging on and on. How many more birds have to be blasted out of the sky before these so called minority are forced to change their ways.
As has been pointed out before , various schemes are in place in different countries aimed at protecting any number of species of bird. This is done at great expense and involves people giving up plenty of time to help in these schemes.
The last thing they need to read about is x amount of whatever(lets face it ,if it flys it gets shot over there) being killed whilst migrating over Malta.
Thats our effort and money down the drain just to satisfy the bloodlust of your hunting community.
If they like shooting that much theres a couple of places on Earth where they can go... trouble is they'll get it coming back there...

 

[Gallina]

"Put pressure on your government then,"
believe me, our government has never been under greater pressure, from the various NGO's, tothe hunters and their federations and the public at large. We all want this problem stamped out but our pleas are falling on deaf ears. We want enforcement and heavy fines to deter, period.


'.... you just have!' No dear John I didn't. If I had to criticise say knife cime i'd talk about the issue and not call the whole British nation a bunch of forest dwelling anglo saxon sword wielding bunch of nincompoops.

 

[John Cantelo]

Agreed. Total barstewards. :C

I agree with Mary the George Cross awarded to that nasty little island should be taken away. And it's about time the EU grew some balls and yanked those cavemen back into line.

Whilst I'd agree that far more Maltese citizens should 'stand-up and be counted' on this matter (and have argued so elswhere on this thread), I can't help thinking that calls to take away the 'George Cross' are deeply misguided. Whatever we may think of the minority (albeit apparently a sizeable one) who slaughter protected species on Malta and the failure of the current government to act decisively, this should not detract from the extraordinary heroism displayed by the Maltese people as a whole during WWII. It's not too great an exaggeration to suggest that had they buckled and the island fallen then the freedoms we blithley take for granted might have been lost. Furthermore, such an act would (rightly) alienate the whole population of that island and put back the cause of conservation decades. Neither is blanket name calling ('cavemen') helpful,

John

 

[John Cantelo]

'.... you just have!' No dear John I didn't. If I had to criticise say knife cime i'd talk about the issue and not call the whole British nation a bunch of forest dwelling anglo saxon sword wielding bunch of nincompoops.

Well I fear we must agree to disagree since your sentence "It is common knowledge that the UK has a disastrous record in all walks of everyday life, be it murders, rapes, child abductions, robberies, abortions, its involvement in wars, the suspicions surrounding Diana's death, the list is endless" sounds exactly the kind of blanket, exaggerated condemnation of the UK that you complain that others make of Malta. You chose to bring up the murder rate, rape, the incidence of child abductions, etc - all emotive subjects - and ones which, per capita, the UK has no worse rate than many other countries and a good deal better than some. What are we to make of your comment "a disasterous record in all walks of everyday life ..." - are you including democracy, free speach, the arts, literature, etc., etc.? No, I'm sorry, but to me your comment has all the hallmarks of a simple slur with little purpose other than to distract readers form the real issue - the widespread illegal shooting of protected species.

However. we are drifting away from the point. Personally, I'm horrified at the degree of intimidation Maltese birders such as Kestrel21 evidently have to suffer for merely being birdwatchers. Is there any other country in the world, let alone in Europe, where its 'normal' to go in fear of abuse, injury or damage to one's property just for being a birdwatcher?

Edit - for the record the Maltese murder rate is in the region of 1.75, that for the UK as a whole a broadly comperable 2.03 (actually for England and Wales alone it's 1.37) and both are well below that of other European nations. Reporting of rape is notoriously subject to social conditions/prejudices, but the figures for the UK are by no means amongst the worst. Neither is the rate of child abductions notoriously high - despite what you read in the media it hasn't changed much for 50 odd years. I'm not sure of the current incidence of robbery, but I suspect other countries are worse. Abortions are so emotive I think I'll pass on the issue. And in case you've forgotten Diana died in France and there's not a shred of evidence of any involvement by UK government (or the 'establishment') in her death. Although I can't say I agree with a all of the wars we've fought, personally I'm rather pleased that the UK decided to fight fascism in 1939. So all-in-all I feel I'm not unreasonable in typifying your comments regarding the UK as an ill informed, and spurious, slur,

John

 

[A CHAPLIN]

Hi Galina,

If as you state you want this "problem stamped out" and I take this to mean the illegal slaughter not only of birds of prey but all protected species. Why do you and others like you, stand up like men and go to YOUR govenment to make them enforce the law.

Yes we have problems in the UK too but here they do not blast flocks of birds out of the sky and the RSPB and Police make great efforts to track down the offenders.

If you have so many legal hunters why don't they make an effort to stop the others, before one day hunting is banned completely and all guns and licences removed. You are a small built up island, not many places to hide unlike ours. They shoot near villages and towns does it not worry you that one day an adult or child may be killed by a stray shot.

Ann

 

[steve west]

I agree that if the Maltese majority is against this massacre then it is up to them to make the first move, stand up, shout, be counted and do a lot more than all but a few of them are doing (my congratulations to Birdlife Malta for their grit and endeavour).

In absence of such a popular movement it seems only right to me that concerned individuals, above all from member nations of the European Union, have a right to step in in their place. The thing about the EU is that it is supposed to be European and a Union, and if one single new member is not prepared to respect the bits of paper it signed in order to actually become a member and receive EU funding (which all European Union citizens pay for in one way or another) then that's an even greater reason for everyone to object to what is happening.

So what is it to be? Is there going to be a public outcry in Malta over the recurrent slaughter of migratory birds, protected under European Union legislation, or not? If not I see no grounds for anyone in the country to object to meddling from outsiders. It's a question of respect and responsibility, and if Maltese culture is not up to the challenge then the island should be given a sharp reminder of their obligations, whether they like them or not.

http://www.BirdingInSpain.com

 

[maltatruth]

the George Cross was awarded to the Maltese people "For Gallantry" and is not going back.....unfortunately most of you are commenting on numbers so little(unfortunately) compared to other eu countries that there cant even be comparison.....i have a house in Enna Sicily (italy) and every year since 2003 i witness unfortunately the killing of dozens of raptors in the surrounding hills,.....what now ban ITALY

 

[znigie]

Youre not being fair... In malta only few numbers of illegal hunting is going about. Believe it or not its true. I go birdwatching almost every morning and i never saw a raptor being shot. Stil some heroes do kill but e very few from the hunting comunity. In defence of my country how do you justify this???

Gamekeeper sentenced for killing birds of prey and badgers
Kyle Burden,19 was sentenced at Telford Magistrates Court today(19 sept 08)after admitting to killing buzzards,and badgers,and setting illegal traps.
The witnesses alleged the tally had included protected species,with entries relating to 102 buzzards,40 ravens,and 37 badgers.
He was ordered to perform 150 hours community service and pay 200 pound sterl.

 

[TJW]

Youre not being fair... In malta only few numbers of illegal hunting is going about. Believe it or not its true. I go birdwatching almost every morning and i never saw a raptor being shot. Stil some heroes do kill but e very few from the hunting comunity. In defence of my country how do you justify this???

Gamekeeper sentenced for killing birds of prey and badgers
Kyle Burden,19 was sentenced at Telford Magistrates Court today(19 sept 08)after admitting to killing buzzards,and badgers,and setting illegal traps.
The witnesses alleged the tally had included protected species,with entries relating to 102 buzzards,40 ravens,and 37 badgers.
He was ordered to perform 150 hours community service and pay 200 pound sterl.

Looks like the hunters are in town.

Here we go

150 hours community service, £200 sterling fine PLUS six month suspended jail sentence.
Don't conveniently forget the suspended jail sentence having gone to the trouble of researching this on the net.
He was turned in by two separate gamekeepers. The RSPB say 'the ranks have been split and the good men are beginning to find their voice'. Where are the good men in the FKNK?

I've watched birds in Malta for a short period of time and have seen black stork, lesser kestrel, honey buzzard and osprey shot. Yet you who live there and can spend much more time watching have never seen a bird of prey shot.

'I go birdwatching almost every morning'. I'd love to know where because we could meet up the next time I am over and find this sanctuary where illegal shooting does not take place. It certainly won't be one of the official reserves as people keep popping along and shooting in there.

 

[Gallina]

John i'm afraid you miss my point completely. Besides this is not the forum to discuss these matters. All I said was that I wouldn't resort to calling a whole nation names.
As to my comments being ill-informed, spurious and slurring, i'm sorry, all one has to do is pick up a newspaper.

 

[CrimsonTopaz]

We are getting bogged down with semantics at the moment. Lets just agree that every country has its faults (with regards to wildlife crime) Lets all focus together to bring the polititions (the puppets) to order. They are the ones who make and enforce laws.
Ive always wanted to know one thing about shooting birds and other creatures-----Why?

 

[maltatruth]

The witnesses alleged the tally had included protected species,with entries relating to 102 buzzards,40 ravens,and 37 badgers.
He was ordered to perform 150 hours community service and pay 200 pound sterl.

....and you call this justice after killing 179 creatures
it is equal to 1 sterling 11 pence and 48 minutes comm work
.............NOT EVEN CLOSE:C:C:C:C:C

 

[delia todd]

Hi Maltatruth and welcome to Birdforum from the Staff and Moderators.

I feel your comments are more applicable in this thread

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=123712

Perhaps you could read that first.

D

 

[Collster]

The witnesses alleged the tally had included protected species,with entries relating to 102 buzzards,40 ravens,and 37 badgers.
He was ordered to perform 150 hours community service and pay 200 pound sterl.

....and you call this justice after killing 179 creatures
it is equal to 1 sterling 11 pence and 48 minutes comm work
.............NOT EVEN CLOSE:C:C:C:C:C

At least the law was enforced in this case.
Whats the excuse over in Malta, are you all deaf and blind that you can't see whats going on, of course not, you just turn a blind eye to it all because its something that's always happened.
Well get it into your heads that pretty soon one way or another it will have to end, either that or you get booted out of the EU AND STOP RECIEVING HANDOUTS OF our MONEY.