New MM4 50 vs part-used Nikon ED50 (2 Viewers)

[Felixtheelix]

I took a similar route and used my old 055XPROB with the MM4 60 and SDLv3, just bought the Siriu VA5 head and was happy. Now, owning a benro TMA27C it’s like night and day. I much more prefer the twist lock, touching carbon is a much warmer and softer feeling and the tripod seems to be more stable and of course it’s much lighter. It’s slightly larger than the 055 but that’s fine for me, I will buy another carbon tripod that doesn’t need to extend to 145cm (my viewing height) to carry in my backpack along with the MM4 on longer walks.

I would have a look at Benro, I’m amazed by the quality.

 

[Mike Crawley]

Benro stuff is decent, the heads are good too - S2 would be a good match.

.
that's interesting to hear, I have been thinking about the Benro tripod that the RSPB sells.

Benro Wild 1 Aluminium Birding Tripod - RSPB Shop

Benro Wild 1 Aluminium Birding Tripod - The latest tripod kits to be added to the Benro range have been created for those with a passion for wildlife and nature.

shopping.rspb.org.uk

priced at £150 but I would get my RSPB volunteer discount off that price. Feels quite sturdy in the visitor centre and quite light at 2kg.

 

[Peregrine Took]

I bought the Manfrotto BeFree Live with the fluid head, £175.00 - will report back.

As for the scope. Just arrived, but in error, with the fixed 23x EP, which I might just keep anyway (they're sending me the zoom). On first inspection, the difference between this and my old Bushnell is night and day, note quite literally, but it's like someone just wiped the condensation off a window and I can now see outside.

On both counts, thanks for all the help chaps.
.

 

[Peregrine Took]

I said I'd report back on the tripod.

This is the Befree Live with fluid head. It's a leap in build quality from the Compact range. The head is light years better than the Compact range and I like the fluid head, the handle for which can be set as you like. Having never used twist locks before, I found them slower than levers, but levers do encourage rapid and noisy deployment (on my 055), which I can imagine might be an issue if you're trying to be stealthy, so I'll get used to them and appreciate the benefits.

The lower legs are still only 12mm diameter and the tripod is not much more stable than the Compact Advance, which cost me £40.00 from Currys. I thought the height of 129cm with the centre column down would be fine, once the scope was mounted, but it's about 10cm too low, so the centre column has to be deployed - I'm 5'10". When I throw the tripod over my shoulder, the grippy fluid head handle acts as a 'hook' over my shoulder and back, so it's a good ergonomic arrangement, when in use and while carrying - and the whole assembly is really light compared to my 055.

The next model up - a beefier version of the BeFree - is the Befree GT. It is higher, without the centre column extended, by 11.5cm and the lower leg section is 15.5mm in diameter, which is the same as the second section of the BeFree Live. It comes with a ball head and its about 200grams heavier. It is 3cm longer when folded. I've ordered one of these to compare the two. I've also ordered the fluid head that comes with the BeFree Live, so that if I keep the GT I'll swap the heads.

This is way more than I expected to pay for a compact tripod when I set out, but I've scratched the compact tripod itch and I at least have the satisfaction of knowing that I'll be happy with either one of the BeFree's (if there wasn't a GT version, which I overlooked originally to save a bit of weight, I'd be happy enough).

The MM4 is spectacular, so I'm more than happy to support it with a good tripod (instead of the cheapest/smallest tripod), especially as I saved the price of the tripod against the overall price of the mint-used scope and new EP. The 23x EP is very nice - might have been a happy accident that it was sent to me, because I may well keep it.
.

 

[wllmspd]

I tend to use my Befree live a little lower than I need so it’s easier for people of different heights to have a look when I observing with a group. If it’s not windy then the stability seems fine. I’d be interested in your 23x vs zoom comparison.

Peter

 

[Richard D]

I've got the Befree Camo with the ball head and whilst it's not perfect think it offers a very decent balance of stability, solidity, weight, size and price.

 

[Peregrine Took]

I got the Befree GT. Much better height (for me, and my tall wife), a little more stable and I can hardly tell the difference in weight. The only thing the GT doesn't have, over the Live (apart from the different head), is the self-levelling centre column; I guess this is helpful for landscaping and architectural photographers (although most cameras have built-in 'spirit' levels), but it's not something that I need.

I swapped the head for a BeFree fluid head. If anyone wants a new ball head, let me know... it's the 496 with 200PL-PRO quick release plate.

My MM4 came with a stay-on cover thrown in. If you have one, how do you guys use yours? Apart from a bit of protection for the body in transit, I'm not sure I see the need, especially in good weather.
.

 

[Peregrine Took]

I’d be interested in your 23x vs zoom comparison.

The zoom arrived and I'd say that the FOV is the same as the 23x lens with the zoom at 15x. So first impressions, only from looking at feeders in the garden at about 50ft away, are that the fixed EP provides a more immersive experience... more magnification, but with a wider FOV. I'll keep them both for now, because I suspect I'll want for longer reach on the Suffolk coast and Minsmere. The zoom appears to be one-touch (I'm using photography terminology), where re-focussing is not required at different focal lengths.

I've got to say, I'm already loving the whole experience of having such a nice bright, sharp, scope.
.

 

[b-lilja]

Just wanted to contribute here - I have had many Nikon ED scopes over the years, in all three main sizes. I do think very highly of the ED three series - really tough scientific grade scopes. I now have a Kowa 883 (which is stunning but seems pretty fragile), with a Nikon ED50 for more portable/hiking use.

I have gone through three ED50s. The one I have now is excellent/outstanding. I use it with the DS eyepiece, and after trying the ED50 with 4-5 Nikon eyepieces, that is the sweet spot. The first one had a shuddery focus that wouldn't micro focus right. I sent it back to Nikon twice to fix, slightly improved but never resolved (no cost except hassle). The second was fine, but shortly after receipt broke in half (at the body seam) in a pack on a mellow day hiking - never did figure out what happened - but suffice to say the plastic retaining the screws are not robust. Back to Nikon; replaced with a second free replacement. This one has been superb; I love its size, view and weight, but assume it wouldn't take much to break it. I have considered epoxying and taping the seam for max durability.

I think the Opticron 50s were not available when I last looked at them, but happy to see them back in the pipeline. I suspect these are tougher. I like their clamshell design; seems strong. I have not looked through one, and will be ordering to compare and will report back. If it's as good or better than the ED50, I'll keep it and sell the ED50.

To be clear, I don't abuse gear, but don't baby it either.

I have tried the Kowa 553 and thought the ED50 was better by a decent margin. It's visually a pretty special scope, esp with the DS eyepiece.

For an allrounder single scope, I think the 60mm is the right call. If you have a big scope, a 50mm is a really nice adjunct for more mobile use.

 

[Ries]

The second was fine, but shortly after receipt broke in half (at the body seam) in a pack on a mellow day hiking - never did figure out what happened - but suffice to say the plastic retaining the screws are not robust. Back to Nikon; replaced with a second free replacement. This one has been superb; I love its size, view and weight, but assume it wouldn't take much to break it. I have considered epoxying and taping the seam for max durability.



To be clear, I don't abuse gear, but don't baby it either.

Mine broke in half as well, when the tripod fell over and it landed on a really thick soft cushioning poll of grass...secondhand so couldn't send it in. It's still good optically, so taped it, thinking of glueing it as well. But am eyeing a MM4 60 also...can't afford a new one, and 2nd hands don't turn up often. But especially with SDL v3 (or even v2) they seem the ultimate travelscope.

 

[Peregrine Took]

But am eyeing a MM4 60 also...can't afford a new one, and 2nd hands don't turn up often. But especially with SDL v3 (or even v2) they seem the ultimate travelscope.

I would read a bit more about the SDLv3 vs the HDT-F, because some report that they can hardly, or can't even, tell the difference. That brings the price down by about £150.00. I understand the SDLv3 is more waterproof, but for my intended use I decided (hoped) the HDF would be weatherproof enough. Having said all of that - and bear in mind this is only after a few hours use - the 23x EP feels like a nicer viewing experience, I'm finding the real benefit of the zoom is initial location of an object at 15x, then zooming in. I guess 45x zoom will come into its own when viewing things more distant than woodland/farmland birds. Glad you guys talked me into a 60mm, but I think I might still get a MM3 50 body to keep in the car, and for my wife to use.

.

 

[wllmspd]

I only use the lowest power if I have trouble pointing the scope, the narrow field of view doesn’t provide as much help as a wider one would. I then normally tune the zoom to give the best balance of detail and brightness for the conditions (normally 25-32x ish) and keep it there. I only crank things to 45x if I feel I need it, but the contrast/brightness drops when I do (unless it’s real bright).

Peter

 

[Ries]

I like zoom ep's for the versatility and not having to carry different ep's along. I also have read about Opticron's HDFs to be sufficient, and some even prefer it above both SDLs though these should provide wider FoV and better optical quality. I'd trust their waterproofness more when birding in tropical forests. There certainly is quite a price difference, so question is if that's worth it. When the budget provides for it, I wouldn't doubt about it and play safe.

 

[Peregrine Took]

There's a used MM4 60 on 'the auction site' this morning - Ace Optics... it's not on their website, but I dare say a phone call will get a 10% discount. Might not be of any use to you, Ries, with import duties.
.

 

[Ries]

I saw it, and indeed; with shipping and import duties it's not far from the price of a new set bought here in Dutchieland. 10% would make it a bit more worthwhile but I don't have the funds (and need) for it currently. Someday!

 

[b-lilja]

Thought I would mention to folks that OpticsPlanet in the US has the 50mm's w SDL eyepiece available for $868 + a 10% discount if you sign up for texts. I just bought one! I'll report back on comparison with the ED50.

 

[Hermann]

Interesting stuff. I think I'll stick to the ED50 for the time being since I've got 60mm and 82mm Fieldscopes as well, and a good set of eyepieces. The optics of the ED50 are pretty good, and I know I'd better not drop it ... A shame Nikon didn't make sure it was as robust as the 60mm scopes in particular.

Mind you, I think I need to have a look at the 50mm Opticron, just in case. The 60mm doesn't interest me at all, in that size (and weight) class I'll stick to the Nikon Fieldscope for the time being. I'd very much like to have a larger selection of eyepieces though, with these small scopes I prefer fixed wideangle eyepieces over the zooms.

Hermann

 

[b-lilja]

Hermann, totally with you, but given I've otherwise moved on from Nikon scopes the eyepieces are less important for me - were I in your shoes I would be the same.

Hard to imagine the Opticron topping the ED60 v3, just saying, esp considering how indestructible they are. All metal! But probably heavier.

It's unfortunate about the ED50 build quality. It feels like with some of the smallest of changes they could fix some things. So close.

 

[Peregrine Took]

.
that's interesting to hear, I have been thinking about the Benro tripod that the RSPB sells.

priced at £150 but I would get my RSPB volunteer discount off that price. Feels quite sturdy in the visitor centre and quite light at 2kg.

I looked at this yesterday at Minsmere and of the two, personally, I'm happy I bought the Manfrotto GT.

My wife and I joined the RSPB while at Minsmere - it was worth the annual subscription just to have a bittern fly within 50ft... twice... and to see a glossy ibis! What a wonderful place.
.

 

[Hermann]

Hard to imagine the Opticron topping the ED60 v3, just saying, esp considering how indestructible they are. All metal! But probably heavier.

The 60mm ED Fieldscopes (not just the ED III/IIIA, the EDII/IIA is also pretty good) are still excellent, even by today's standards. The build quality is second to none IME, and optically there still aren't many scopes as good as the Nikons. Their only weak spot are the narrow zoom eyepieces. I got a straight EDIII in addition to my EDIIIA a few years ago when they were on sale after Nikon had phased them out. There are situations when I prefer straight scopes, e.g. when I'm in the car or on a monopod. One of their great advantages is that they all seem to have pretty much the same quality. We've got 5 Fieldscopes in the family, and while two are just a tiny bit better than the others none of them is a lemon.

It's unfortunate about the ED50 build quality. It feels like with some of the smallest of changes they could fix some things. So close.

Quite right. The first few batches had the problem with the tripod bush, and all of them are a bit fragile for rough use in the field. Optically most I've seen in the field were very good. I only came across one ED50 that wasn't up to scratch IMO. That's better than most.

Hermann