New Zeiss Victory FL binoculars (2 Viewers)

[Pileatus]

We are talking about the highest priced consumer-oriented binocular market, and I think we should expect a very high level of consistency within a product line. I am also certain that, at this price point, customers would pay more for the guarantee of "best quality".

Option 1: The Birdie is the sharpest, lightest, bin ever produced.
Cost $1300.00 USD

Option 2: The Birdie is the sharpest, lightest, bin ever produced.
Cost $1430.00 USD (first quality guarantee...a crème de la crème Birdie)

Which option would you select?

John

 

[Curtis Croulet]

For 99.5% of buyers, the $1430 Birdie is not the slightest bit better than the $1300 Birdie. Meanwhile, prospective buyers are generating threads in this forum about how "overpriced" it is. BTW, I haven't it with birding binoculars, but I know that with astronomical telescopes there are businesses that will cherry-pick the best one for you -- but you will pay extra.

 

[henry link]

We are talking about the highest priced consumer-oriented binocular market, and I think we should expect a very high level of consistency within a product line. I am also certain that, at this price point, customers would pay more for the guarantee of "best quality".

Option 1: The Birdie is the sharpest, lightest, bin ever produced.
Cost $1300.00 USD

Option 2: The Birdie is the sharpest, lightest, bin ever produced.
Cost $1430.00 USD (first quality guarantee...a crème de la crème Birdie)

Which option would you select?

John

Back in the 70's and 80's Zeiss/Jena used to print a 1Q on samples that were supposed to be "1st Quality", so there is a sort of precedent for a two tiered system of pricing. The picky pay for what they want, the non-picky save some money and take their chances.

 

[Pinewood]

First quality?

Back in the 70's and 80's Zeiss/Jena used to print a 1Q on samples that were supposed to be "1st Quality", so there is a sort of precedent for a two tiered system of pricing. The picky pay for what they want, the non-picky save some money and take their chances.

My dear Henry,

I believe that the Zeiss Jena "1Q" was only a marketing gimmick to overcome the reputation for poor quality at that concern. I have not heard that there were any products, of the same model, made without the "1Q," which were poorer. It had the same validity as 'export quality.'

Should anyone know that there was a difference, please let me know.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:

 

[henry link]

My dear Henry,

I believe that the Zeiss Jena "1Q" was only a marketing gimmick to overcome the reputation for poor quality at that concern. I have not heard that there were any products, of the same model, made without the "1Q," which were poorer. It had the same validity as 'export quality.'

Should anyone know that there was a difference, please let me know.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:

Arthur,

I've heard the same thing. Any importer could specify the 1Q badge to increase "consumer confidence". Twenty years later ebay sellers are still using it the same way.

Henry

 

[Curtis Croulet]

My dear Henry,

I believe that the Zeiss Jena "1Q" was only a marketing gimmick to overcome the reputation for poor quality at that concern. I have not heard that there were any products, of the same model, made without the "1Q," which were poorer. It had the same validity as 'export quality.'

Should anyone know that there was a difference, please let me know.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:

I thought some of you guys collected Zeiss Jena binoculars. Are they really not very good?

 

[Pinewood]

I thought some of you guys collected Zeiss Jena binoculars. Are they really not very good?

Curtis,

I own two Zeiss Jena glasses: one from 1917 and one from 1930. Zeiss Jena after 1945 had many problems. Carl Zeiss, Inc., was in West Germany, after 1945, or so, and was a different company.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

 

[Curtis Croulet]

Curtis,

I own two Zeiss Jena glasses: one from 1917 and one from 1930. Zeiss Jena after 1945 had many problems. Carl Zeiss, Inc., was in West Germany, after 1945, or so, and was a different company.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

Thanks. I knew that post-WWII they were separate companies and that the Jena factory eventually wasn't even allowed to use the Zeiss name in the US. And I know that the various Pentacon and Praktika cameras produced in Jena were a mixed bag. But it doesn't automatically follow that everything they made was substandard (I'm not contesting it, just saying it's not an automatic conclusion from the history of the company or problems with other products). Someone else in this forum spoke highly of the Jenoptem binoculars, for example, and I've wondered about the general quality level of that and similar lines.

 

[henry link]

Thanks. I knew that post-WWII they were separate companies and that the Jena factory eventually wasn't even allowed to use the Zeiss name in the US. And I know that the various Pentacon and Praktika cameras produced in Jena were a mixed bag. But it doesn't automatically follow that everything they made was substandard (I'm not contesting it, just saying it's not an automatic conclusion from the history of the company or problems with other products). Someone else in this forum spoke highly of the Jenoptem binoculars, for example, and I've wondered about the general quality level of that and similar lines.

Curtis,

There are really only two binoculars made by post war Zeiss/Jena that are highly prized by collectors, an 8X50B and 12X50B made in the mid 80's to very high quality standards. They have massive prisms and closely resemble the porros made by Zeiss West in the 50's and 60's. I bought a pair of the 8X50's in 1985 for about $400, a princely sum for a pair of bins in those days. Unfortunately I sold them a few years later for $300. Now they go on ebay for $1000-1500.

The Jenoptem was a pre-war design 8X30 that continued in production into the 90's. I just pulled out an old Vic Odden's price list from the 80's which has them for 40 pounds. They also made a more deluxe version of it called the Deltrintem (50 pounds). I had a pair of those made in the 80's which were not very good.

Henry

 

[Andy Bright]

It may be an idea to start a new thread on some of these interesting 'Zeiss' collectables, or indeed any other make. I'm sure it would be of interest to many and easier to locate on the site, rather than as a sidenote on a thread such as this.

Andy

 

[henry link]

It may be an idea to start a new thread on some of these interesting 'Zeiss' collectables, or indeed any other make. I'm sure it would be of interest to many and easier to locate on the site, rather than as a sidenote on a thread such as this.

Andy

Andy,

Sorry--Since I helped get things off track maybe I can help get them back on.

A few days ago I had the chance to briefly compare my 8X42 FL to a recent 8X40 Victory in a store. I expected the FL to look sharper and have lower CA in the center, which it did, but there were several surprises. First my FL actually had better edge sharpness than this particular Victory. Second the FL was noticeably brighter and higher contrast than the Victory which I didn't expect given that both use T* coating. Lastly the color transmission of the FL was certainly different and to my eye more neutral. The Victory image looked slightly yellow compared to the FL, a bit like the Diascope. Based on that somewhat casual comparision the 8X42 FL looks to me like a very substantial improvement over the 8X40 Victory.

 

[moman]

Andy,

Sorry--Since I helped get things off track maybe I can help get them back on.

A few days ago I had the chance to briefly compare my 8X42 FL to a recent 8X40 Victory in a store. I expected the FL to look sharper and have lower CA in the center, which it did, but there were several surprises. First my FL actually had better edge sharpness than this particular Victory. Second the FL was noticeably brighter and higher contrast than the Victory which I didn't expect given that both use T* coating. Lastly the color transmission of the FL was certainly different and to my eye more neutral. The Victory image looked slightly yellow compared to the FL, a bit like the Diascope. Based on that somewhat casual comparision the 8X42 FL looks to me like a very substantial improvement over the 8X40 Victory.

Henry,
Was that the Victory II that you compared the FL to?

 

[henry link]

Henry,
Was that the Victory II that you compared the FL to?

Yes. It must be from some of the last production since the store has only had it in stock for about 4 or 5 months.

 

[Andy Bright]

Andy,

Sorry--Since I helped get things off track maybe I can help get them back on.

A few days ago I had the chance to briefly compare my 8X42 FL to a recent 8X40 Victory in a store. I expected the FL to look sharper and have lower CA in the center, which it did, but there were several surprises. First my FL actually had better edge sharpness than this particular Victory. Second the FL was noticeably brighter and higher contrast than the Victory which I didn't expect given that both use T* coating. Lastly the color transmission of the FL was certainly different and to my eye more neutral. The Victory image looked slightly yellow compared to the FL, a bit like the Diascope. Based on that somewhat casual comparision the 8X42 FL looks to me like a very substantial improvement over the 8X40 Victory.

None of the above surprises me at all, the Victory was nice enough but not in the FL league (the Victory was very reasonably priced though)... to be fair, the Victory did give a bright image and pretty accurate colour rendition but in other areas it didn't quite match the competitors.

Thanks for getting back on topic but it really would be interesting to start a historical binos thread... Euro binos never seem to die, as could be seen at the recent birdfair over here, they weren't quite u-boat commander era but there were plenty of old Zeiss around the necks of birders (of a certain age

regards,
Andy

 

[Leif]

For 99.5% of buyers, the $1430 Birdie is not the slightest bit better than the $1300 Birdie. Meanwhile, prospective buyers are generating threads in this forum about how "overpriced" it is. BTW, I haven't it with birding binoculars, but I know that with astronomical telescopes there are businesses that will cherry-pick the best one for you -- but you will pay extra.

What happens to the ones the dealer considers to be of lesser quality?

 

[mcdowella]

I'm not sure that the idea of having a separate specially selected line makes sense: a lot of quality work is not so much "testing in" quality by detecting mistakes as in arranging processes to make sure mistakes can't be made in the first place. Another possible move would be for one of the top marques to get their processes audited to show that e.g. in fact no more than 3.4 samples per million are out of spec. Lots of bureacratic purchasing organisations these days are looking for something called ISO 9000 accreditation, or some variant thereof. Unfortunately - at least in the computer world - this says lots about your paperwork and almost nothing about your product. However, there are signs of this changing - even with computers - and it is possible that the manufacturing or optical industries are ahead of the software industry.

 

[Curtis Croulet]

What happens to the ones the dealer considers to be of lesser quality?

Good question! I don't know. The dealer I'm thinking of is Company Seven in Maryland. I think the old Roger Tuthill Co., now defunct, cherry picked buyers' scopes, too. Company Seven also carries Leica & Zeiss bins. Don't know if they screen those.

 

[Leif]

Good question! I don't know. The dealer I'm thinking of is Company Seven in Maryland. I think the old Roger Tuthill Co., now defunct, cherry picked buyers' scopes, too. Company Seven also carries Leica & Zeiss bins. Don't know if they screen those.

Either they have one group that they sell without inspection, and another group from which they select the best and return the rest to the distributor, or they select the best and sell at a premium, and sell the rest at normal price. In the latter case you are assured of getting an average or below average unit unless you pay the premium!

I suspect the most common defect in premium binoculars is mis-collimation.

Maybe we should start a new thread on manufacturing methods and quality control?

 

[Curtis Croulet]

Company Seven only has one tier of pricing, AFAIK. If you're looking for a rock-bottom price, C7 is not your dealer. Disclaimer: I've never bought anything from them; I only know what's on their website and past posts by their owner on Usenet groups.

 

[Pileatus]

Since I have to wait a few more weeks to see an FL, could we have some additional reviews from current owners? After all the pre-delivery hype and early reports, I was hoping to read some juicy field-based reports by now.

John