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Nikon an Alpha? (1 Viewer)

newfie ghost

Well-known member
Some folks refer to the "big three"- SWARO, ZEISS and Leica. But what about Nikon? Shouldn't we say the big four?

This is in reference to a topic that came up in another thread.
 
Some folks refer to the "big three"- SWARO, ZEISS and Leica. But what about Nikon? Shouldn't we say the big four?

A point raised many many times in the past. The amount of ink spilt in this forum on massaging brand loyalities never ceases to astound.
 
Just have a look at a pair of nikons they are really good ,the term big three is relative to price i think
 
How do we define alpha, not all Swaro, Zeiss, Leica models are alpha`s.

Nikon certainly make alpha`s, but Minox, Meopta even Vortex are knocking on the door.
 
I think with the advent of premium porro's Nikon is indeed a top binocular manufacturer! Though the lx, lxl models were also worthy of top billing and now there edg series puts them right there in the mix! I don't think that there was any question that when you compared top binoculars Nikon was always thrown into the equation! To be honest i don't remember when Swarovski became a house hold name??? I remember back in the late 80's not being overly impressed with Swarovski binoculars! Now i'm on my third Swaro binocular! Bryce...
 
Absolutely! I am surprised you, as a Nikon EDG owner, even have to ask.;)

There may be some branding confusion due to the fact that Nikon also markets lower end blister pack models that hang from the peg board displays at Walmart. The Euro three ignore that market segment. Also, not being a European company makes Nikon unique for an alpha maker, so that may cause some to want to leave them out.

Nikon EDG optics, construction, precision, ergonomics and unfortunately price, are all alpha.
 
Absolutely! I am surprised you, as a Nikon EDG owner, even have to ask.;)

There may be some branding confusion due to the fact that Nikon also markets lower end blister pack models that hang from the peg board displays at Walmart. The Euro three ignore that market segment. Also, not being a European company makes Nikon unique for an alpha maker, so that may cause some to want to leave them out.

Nikon EDG optics, construction, precision, ergonomics and unfortunately price, are all alpha.

I think they are for sure, but I often see folks talk like it isn't so- big 3. Hey I admire the premier line as well.
 
The "alpha" label is not only a reference to matters optical or ergonomical. Its use also refers to social/behavioral aspects in the relevant markets and in the relevant interest tribes (birders, hunters, collectors). The price must also be exclusionary in nature, separate and apart from the relationship between price and quality. An "alpha" must confer a badge of status to its possessor, (at least for those who appreciate such a badge). If it does not, it is not an "alpha".

There are now many optically and mechanically excellent binoculars available, if one considers operant factors and not fanboy discussions. That is very different from the recent past, when there really was a gulf between Leica, Zeiss, Bausch & Lomb, then Swift, Swarovski and some Nikon models, and all the rest.

I am not saying that the trinity's or quadrinity's products are not mechanically and optically superb. The past (but declining) dominance of bino's used by actual researchers being the alpha's, due to their being the only source of high quality & durable & waterproof optics in the past, illustrates that point.

But there is a social element. That is why, for example the Nikon SE line could never be an "alpha" despite their optical excellence.

The Teutonic Trio (Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski) are firmly alpha. Nikon is "newly alpha",in the last few years, at least in its top priced model (right now, the EDG). This was not possible though until Japan transitioned from the perception of being the land of inexpensive/mass produced products, to being a land of high tech, precision products. Through both phases, Nikon has made various high quality optics.
 
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There may be some branding confusion due to the fact that Nikon also markets lower end blister pack models that hang from the peg board displays at Walmart. The Euro three ignore that market segment. Also, not being a European company makes Nikon unique for an alpha maker, so that may cause some to want to leave them out.
Interesting points you raise. Nikon reminds me of Bausch & Lomb and its later owner, Bushnell. It/They at one time competed at all price levels. But folks who first started getting into binos in the last 15-20 years may have never known them as an "Alpha" brand, due to their abandonment of the the high price market. The 1980's-early 1990's B&L Elites went head to head with the Trinity. B&L's high end porros were the main competitor to Zeiss in the 1930's-50's.

The 20th century tendency to equate mechanical and optical quality to culturally Germanic countries does influence this also. Strange, considering that Nikon (Nippon Kogaru sp?) actually established quite a reputation prior to WW1.
 
Not to stray to far off thread, a brand which i am finding has some really superb optical/ergonomical/quality control qualities, and reliability so far, are some of the roofs coming from Vortex/EO.
Why don't we have one of those emoticons of a pile of bricks falling on someone? ;)
 
But there is a social element. That is why, for example the Nikon SE line could never be an "alpha" despite their optical excellence.

Excellent post, Jay. On your point quoted above, I offer an anecdote.

A friend of mine recently invested in Swarovisions. He's not a showy guy, but they put a bit of swagger in his step with all the attention they were getting. His former binoculars? 10x42SEs, still the best view I've seen through a 10x. Today I showed up for our weekly NWR census with my new 8x32SEs, showed them to him (I suppose expecting some kind of tribal affirmation), and he looked at them blankly. He did not know what they were. Thus, the one unambiguously "alpha" porro sinks into anonymity!:-C

David
 
Excellent post, Jay. On your point quoted above, I offer an anecdote.

A friend of mine recently invested in Swarovisions. He's not a showy guy, but they put a bit of swagger in his step with all the attention they were getting. His former binoculars? 10x42SEs, still the best view I've seen through a 10x. Today I showed up for our weekly NWR census with my new 8x32SEs, showed them to him (I suppose expecting some kind of tribal affirmation), and he looked at them blankly. He did not know what they were. Thus, the one unambiguously "alpha" porro sinks into anonymity!:-C

David

Interesting, to me alpha is about the view. If the SE is as good as BF members say it is, then it is an alpha.

David, what did your friend say when he looked through the SE?

And yes people do look at you differently around here depending upon the brand. I think it is pretty funny when I carry the Steiners.
 
Some folks refer to the "big three"- SWARO, ZEISS and Leica. But what about Nikon? Shouldn't we say the big four?

The big 3, or euro alphas, have a status based on the quality of their optics, the quality of their construction/design, and from some mix of simply being part of the reality/marketing phenomenon referred to as "German engineering" (or at least germanic engineering :). Zeiss and Leica have earned brand status from long histories making industrial, lab, military, and high-end consumer optics. Swarovski is much newer to the scene and hasn't done as much with optics generally, but no consumer can doubt its status as a european maker of luxury consumer goods, what with all the crystal and such. It is true that not all Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski models are at the pinnacle of optical performance, but all are still unmistakably luxury goods. Those bins are only bought deliberately, because even the least expensive models are way out of the price range that most consumers imagine a bin should cost if it's only meant to be a bin. The euro alphas are great tools, but prestige is also always part of the equation. That's why Leica can charge so much more than Panasonic for what is exactly the same compact digital camera.

No one questions Nikon's ability to make top-end bins. But Nikon is a Japanese company, so it can't partake of the Euro mystique, and it doesn't market itself so as to cultivate a comparable set of associations. Since the 1960s, it has built a reputation as a maker of superb consumer and industrial optics. The high-end Nikon consumer optics have a reputation for being well engineered, solid, usually conservatively styled _tools_. Nikon is famous among (at least older) photographers for engineering some extreme optics (some crazy-amazing limited-production SLR lenses), but even there, the emphasis has been on showcasing its ability to solve design issues in the service of making tools to achieve particular technical needs, such as for commercial photography, industry, or NASA. Nikon pricing (with the exception of some of those limited production lenses) is generally kept low enough to make its products worth considering as tools for ones' trade or avocation, and performance is designed around versatility. In comparison, Leica makes cameras and lenses that are priced much much higher, and which are often less versatile as tools, even while being beautiful works of metal and glass and unmatched in some particular performance categories. They are marketed as luxury goods, without apology, and it is the rare consumer who can justify purchasing them based on practical considerations. Zeiss doesn't make cameras, but it does market luxury manual-focus lenses for current Nikon and other cameras (the lenses are expensive, especially considering their "feature set", though the pricing is controlled compared to Leica by being manufactured in Japan by Cosina). Meanwhile, Nikon puts the same brand name on both its best bins, and the ones that are only a small step up from the bins in the bubble packs. Some small Nikon cameras are marketed as fashion accessories, but all Nikon bins are first and foremost tools, even the expensive ones.

--AP
 
For resale value Leica Swarofski and Ziess kick sand in the eyecups of Nikon and stamp on there focussing nobs.
 

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For resale value Leica Swarofski and Ziess kick sand in the eyecups of Nikon and stamp on there focussing nobs.

Ah, but concerning oneself with resale value strikes me as low class. Not something that would enter the mind of anyone who buys a euro alpha and who isn't a pretender.

--AP
 
Just ask Dennis! End of story!:smoke:;)

Norm, I agree with you, no matter what others say on here say.
 
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