Nomi Cam's use of 6-axis robotic equipment to test for lens glare (1 Viewer)

[Owlbarred]

Instead of qualitative, uncontrolled assessments of camera lens glare (e.g. I see or never see veiling glare), they use sophisticated 6-axis robotic equipment and software to obtain objective, repeatable tests. Oh to have such a machine for objectively comparing veiling glare among binocular models and brands!!!!!

At the risk of beating a dead horse (guilty as charged), some on this site maintain that because they never see veiling glare in their binoculars, it must be due to inherent differences among an individual's personal characteristics. Veiling glare is somehow like an allergy that some experience and others don't. Well, perhaps.

As a qualitative aside, to date, 16 people in my birding club have now compared binoculars at the harrier roost (westward view with a dark tree line in the backround) at the same early evening period beginning 1 hour or less before time of official sunset. All have seen veiling glare through their own binoculars as well as others' binoculars on the same day, with as noted in an earlier post, marked observed differences among models and brands of binoculars. My beloved 8x32 Swaros -- absolutely wonderful elsewhere -- were among the worst offenders, with one comment "Egad, how can use these?" particularly telling.

Take home message? Long overdue for not giving binocular makers an excuse for not addressing the obvious VG shortcoming in certain alpha binoculars. Field of view and light transmission are provided for each binocular, why not a standardized VG test with a standardized parameter to better inform consumers a priori?

 

[wllmspd]

Simple idea, you could do the same with a fully dark, black painted room(or at least blackout sheeting or black flock on one wall), small single led torch and a tip/tilt stage (eg tripod pan/tilt head) so you can move the view past the light and see the effect. Of course taking images and using a motorised stage will provide quantifiable/comparable results. But if you could point several binoculars in the same direction you could do some more consistent side by side tests.

Peter

 

[tehri]

Interesting post.... but probably wrong ' Forum Section' !

 

[james holdsworth]

Henry Link has many times fully explained glare in certain binoculars. It’s not a myth nor is it strictly a personal thing but a design choice…or error lol.

 

[Owlbarred]

Perhaps you’re correct, but given that VG has had such wide coverage on the site, and because I am the owner of two pairs of Swarovski, it seemed appropriate here. My only goal is to have some improvements made in binoculars that I dearly love other than the VG. We need to get as far away from subjective VG assessment of a possibly (hopefully) measurable, correctable parameter as possible.

 

[Binastro]

Camera lenses are different from binoculars.

Although the eyepieces of binoculars are wide angle the TFOV is small.

In addition, camera lenses may have more elements than binoculars.

It is not difficult to test binoculars for flare and ghosting in a repeatable way.

The flare and glare with a binocular may not be a problem in actual use, depending on how the observer uses the binocular and in what conditions.

I know that some very expensive professional lenses have shown flare and ghosting in unusual situations despite the makers best efforts to almost eliminate them.
When this problem was examined a solution was found.

Cameras are also different because the sensors are different to our eyes.

So, maybe the device in the video is useful, but it may not be necessary for binoculars.

Regards,
B.

 

[tehri]

Perhaps you’re correct, but given that VG has had such wide coverage on the site, and because I am the owner of two pairs of Swarovski, it seemed appropriate here.

It's up to you, and Modos, i really don't care, lol, but just mentioned what i supposed to be an error, nothing more.
( Being the owner of 2 pairs of Swaro does not exempt from making mistakes, ahaha !! )

 

[Owlbarred]

Henry Link has many times fully explained glare in certain binoculars. It’s not a myth nor is it strictly a personal thing but a design choice…or error lol.

For sure. Henry Link is a national, treasure regards
binoculars. But if quantitative, objective measurements can be made for camera lenses to allow comparison,surely they can be performed for binoculars to inform the customer in his/her decision making. Outside this forum, relatively few have even
heard of veiling glare. Put me in that category until several months ago.

 

[Owlbarred]

Well said. I realize there’s a big difference between camera lenses and binoculars. And I certainly wasn’t implying that Nom Cam’s robotic testing or techniques would work for binoculars. I merely wanted to point out how there has been thinking outside the box in terms of assessing optical equipment - of using technology to quantitatively assess camera lens glare under controlled conditions and how wonderful it would be if a quantitative assessment — according to strict industry standards — could be provided, before purchase, for VG in binoculars.

 

[Binastro]

Some time ago I listed various binoculars regarding flare and ghosting, but I don't know where the post is.

They ranged from 5 to almost 9 out of ten.
I think a Noctivid might be 9 out of ten, but don't have one.

The scale is probably logarithmic.

But I realised only recently that the 12x45 binocular that I used daily for ten years is actually poor regarding flare.
I just never used it in situations where this was a problem.

Also I was heavily criticised here for the review I did of an early Nikon Monarch 8x42 .
It is awful for glare for an £800 binocular. The black internal paint is glossy instead of matt and near the sun with great care shielding the sun it has monstrous flare.

It took six months before Nikon released the binocular for sale in the U.S. and they clearly redesigned the binocular, because everyone says how great the binocular is.

I made no effort to return my lemon example as it is a reminder not to buy binoculars.
Happily, I have not bought a binocular for three years due to Covid etc.

However, if the binocular makers introduced a scale for flare, I doubt the buyer would be any the wiser.
It is clear from numerous posts here that some Swarovski binoculars have bad flare.
Yet these binoculars are still bought and I suppose for many users the flare is not a problem.

I don't have one of these binoculars so cannot comment.

With the Zeiss Conquest 8x32 I found that using a straight edge mask of 4.5mm the glare almost disappeared.
So for me this is an excellent 8x30 but not a very good 8x32.

Regards,
B.

 

[Owlbarred]

Some time ago I listed various binoculars regarding flare and ghosting, but I don't know where the post is.

They ranged from 5 to almost 9 out of ten.
I think a Noctivid might be 9 out of ten, but don't have one.

The scale is probably logarithmic.

But I realised only recently that the 12x45 binocular that I used daily for ten years is actually poor regarding flare.
I just never used it in situations where this was a problem.

Also I was heavily criticised here for the review I did of an early Nikon Monarch 8x42 .
It is awful for glare for an £800 binocular. The black internal paint is glossy instead of matt and near the sun with great care shielding the sun it has monstrous flare.

It took six months before Nikon released the binocular for sale in the U.S. and they clearly redesigned the binocular, because everyone says how great the binocular is.

I made no effort to return my lemon example as it is a reminder not to buy binoculars.
Happily, I have not bought a binocular for three years due to Covid etc.

However, if the binocular makers introduced a scale for flare, I doubt the buyer would be any the wiser.
It is clear from numerous posts here that some Swarovski binoculars have bad flare.
Yet these binoculars are still bought and I suppose for many users the flare is not a problem.

I don't have one of these binoculars so cannot comment.

With the Zeiss Conquest 8x32 I found that using a straight edge mask of 4.5mm the glare almost disappeared.
So for me this is an excellent 8x30 but not a very good 8x32.

Regards,
B.

 

[Owlbarred]

Well said.
"Yet these binoculars are still bought and I suppose for many users the flare is not a problem." For sure.

As I noted in another thread, I never even realized I had a severe VG problem until this year at the harrier roost. This is despite having owned and loved EL's for 19 years. In the past, I noticed I had late afternoon problems looking upward at backlit raptors or smaller birds in leafless trees but attributed it to -- as in photography parlance -- just "bad light."