Vespa
Tom Hines
You should put it on your garden list! :-O
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Norfolk birding (111 Viewers)
- Thread starter Edward woodwood
- Start date
You should put it on your garden list! :-O
Penny Clarke
Well-known member
No, not really.
Penny Clarke
Well-known member
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
The Intriguing Tale Of The Cley And The Canada Groose
You won't get any from me, James, as I have no idea.
I heard the barest facts, whilst ogling the bird itself. Perhaps others could furnish more ? ?
As for:
My window list is sacrosanct- unlike my rather dirty windows themselves ! Sorry, it’s for others to embellish their Liszts- he’s too difficult for me.
I still haven't seen why the news from Rimac took so long to appear. Elucidation ?
You won't get any from me, James, as I have no idea.
I heard the barest facts, whilst ogling the bird itself. Perhaps others could furnish more ? ?
As for:
My window list is sacrosanct- unlike my rather dirty windows themselves ! Sorry, it’s for others to embellish their Liszts- he’s too difficult for me.
I still haven't seen why the news from Rimac took so long to appear. Elucidation ?
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wolfphotos
Well-known member
Ho humm! The benefits (and pain) of the photographic revolution! Shame these people who photograph birds don't know what they are looking at(Yes, I know the arguements...why should they:smoke: etc, etc ... we don't have a given right... etc, etc ... but, boy, it would have been nice to se in Norfolk!!)
Sorry but I take exception to this i am a photographer and probably wouldn't know what i was photographing until I looked it up but I would bet the same would go for an awful lot of birders. Also if they had not been photographers you would not have the proof that the bird was there. Then there is the question of who would you report it to anyone who has read this forum recently and seen the abuse that people get when they post about a bird they have seen wouldn't dare mention it. Having witnessed the recent scrums at Twitchwell with the poor Little Bittern I don't think I would mention it anyway. If you did report it there is the pile of forms and descriptions you have to fill in to be excepted by the gods of rare birds. Finally perhaps the real question is why there were no birders on site to witness the high tide spectacular or is that something that is beneath experienced birders because there is no tick in it for them. Maybe if "real" birders remembered why they started watching birds and stopped obsessing about ticks there would have been some birders on site and not "just" photographers who are, obviously, only interested in the beauty of the subject and capturing it for future enjoyment.
Dave Hawkins
Dear diary, what a day it's been...
With a bird as unfamiliar as sandhill crane I agree a lot of birders would want to look key features in a field guide. There is no harm in 'looking a bird up'....it's what field guides are for!
There are other ways of reporting birds other than this forum!
It's only correct that there is a process of checking rare bird records otherwise we would have no confidence in anyone's sightings or a scientific archive.
I know several of the 'gods of rare birds' on the BBRC and the Norfolk recorders and always have found them to be approachable, friendly, only to willing to share their knowledge, in fact just ordinairy folk who are passionate about thier hobby...just like we are!
We counted 300+ people at the wader spectacular which finished around 10am. The crane was a kilometre or more up the coast at the country park beach at least three hours later.
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goldenwingedwar
Well-known member
Yes very much so I would imagine. Its easy to get into the mindset thinking people are going to report something different immediately but remember many of these people were birders enjoying the high tide spectacle and enjoying some normal birding, appreciating commoner birds and probably not particulary concerned about rarities.
goldenwingedwar
Well-known member
Some of your points are valid but the arguments about submitting forms is a silly one. Your submission would go to a County recorder / rarities commitee who do excellent jobs in maintaining records. A description and photo and a permanent record I feel would enhance the enjoyment of having seen a rare bird. Do not confuse these people with many of the badly behaved twitchers you refer to.
Happisbirder
Always looking, seldom finding...
Wing-tagged Marsh Harrier?
I was recently talking with one of the Happisburgh Coast Watch volunteers who told me of a large bird of prey he had seen close to the Coast Watch lookout. It was on September 13th, early pm, and he said the bird flew in and settled on the ground for around a half hour or so before taking to the wing and leaving. He didn't know what it was but said it was roughly akin to a Marsh Harrier in size and that on each wing was a square white tag with black numbers. I've checked the listings on 'cr-birding.be' and have contacted various schemes that I felt might know this bird (Harriers, Kites, Buzzards) and it looks as if it may be a Marsh Harrier from the Swale in Kent. This would be a good record for them as none of their birds has yet ventured more than 10km from the natal area. However, the tag number given to me doesn't seem to exactly fit in with the ringing schemes records so is probably a mis-read code. Perhaps birders in the county, particularly Broadland now the roost will be starting to build, could give any Marsh Harrier they see a second look to check for tags and report their sighting; details of whom to contact can easily be found at www.cr-birding.be or, if you wish, contact me and I'll set the wheels in motion...
James
I was recently talking with one of the Happisburgh Coast Watch volunteers who told me of a large bird of prey he had seen close to the Coast Watch lookout. It was on September 13th, early pm, and he said the bird flew in and settled on the ground for around a half hour or so before taking to the wing and leaving. He didn't know what it was but said it was roughly akin to a Marsh Harrier in size and that on each wing was a square white tag with black numbers. I've checked the listings on 'cr-birding.be' and have contacted various schemes that I felt might know this bird (Harriers, Kites, Buzzards) and it looks as if it may be a Marsh Harrier from the Swale in Kent. This would be a good record for them as none of their birds has yet ventured more than 10km from the natal area. However, the tag number given to me doesn't seem to exactly fit in with the ringing schemes records so is probably a mis-read code. Perhaps birders in the county, particularly Broadland now the roost will be starting to build, could give any Marsh Harrier they see a second look to check for tags and report their sighting; details of whom to contact can easily be found at www.cr-birding.be or, if you wish, contact me and I'll set the wheels in motion...
James
David Norgate
Well-known member
I'm hoping that, although this is primarily a response to wolfphotos post, all will read and express opinions on the points I have made!!
Sorry that you took exception, wolfphotos, it wasn't completely intended (although I find it intriguing upsetting a pseudonym) goldenwingedwarbler has pointed out important aspects of 'forms', which I wouldn't go into as I don't for personal and political reasons.
However, there are a couple of your points that I would like to take up.
Firstly, you comment on taking pictures and identifying them at home. In 'the good old days' (when people took notes and had fieldcraft, both in their birding and their twitching) I believe that the majority of birds would have been identified 'in the field'. It is interesting that people bemoan the lack of notebooks, but can the same be said about the lack of fieldguides actually used in the 'field'. If these photographers had a copy of Collins on them, then they would have realised that it wasn't a Common Crane (and if they had looked in the back, that it was a Sandhill and that it was very rare!)
Secondly, your comment about proof that the bird was there. You seemed to miss my starter about the benefits of photography, where I was alluding to this. Some people are very happy the bird was photographed in Norfolk and that it therefore adds to the natural history of the county (I won't delve into the issues of photos not actually being proof these days!) - although with counties being political, rather than natural divisions this doesn't have the same effect on me (except as a dirty filthy twitcher, whose only important list is his county one - I know, I'm an anomaly!)
Thirdly, you seem to have made the assumption that the people who got the pics were there because of the High Tide Roost Spectacular, therefore they would have known about the RSPB and could have reported it to them earlier if they had wanted to, so the 'who to report it to' speaks for itself! (and as far as being present on this particular day, the idea of 'enjoying' this spectacular with 100s of other people, when there are plenty of other opportunities to do so in more solitude, is not something I'd choose to do - I leave that for one-off occasions, where there might not be another opportunity to experience the occasions, like twitches!) Also, remember that the bird in question was found further North of the RSPB Wader Spectacular.
Fourthly, you mention the 'poor Little Bittern'. Does anyone think that the bird was affected by the people? The fact that it kept on appearing (irregularly) in the same area, rather than departing sooner (or just further back into the reeds) makes me wonder! I know the behaviour could have been better and I, for one, continue to promote and expect good behaviour at twitches, I never saw people going down the bank and would have mentioned it to them at the time. I know after the 'first' day that there was a request not to stand on the bank (I didn't hear this being asked on the Saturday, but would have helped to manage it if the RSPB Wardens had tried to 'enforce' this) so hope that the request was adhered to and if not, why not. The time I spent there on the Saturday was often fraught, but not really badly behaved. Can I please apologise on behalf of the group I represent if you personally was affected.
Fifthly, I have no expectations that 'normal' people would report their bird sightings (or even read) on this thread on bird forum, although that is an option that we would like to promote (recent 'abuse' (as you call it) on here has been less to do with the actual birds, than the circumstances of the sighting and the willingness to listen to more experienced opinions)
From reading your post I have made the assumption that the birds are just part of your particular hobby and that you take pictures because you are 'only interested in the beauty of the subject and capturing it for future enjoyment' (wasn't sure if this was meant ironically) and that is a beautiful sentiment. Hopefully, from your experiences, you also realise that others get their interest and enjoyments in other ways, that you and others could bring, through what you do.
Live and let live. I hope that someday we accidently meet and I point out something to you that you get great enjoyment out of, in the same way i would have got great enjoyment out of seeing the Sandhill Crane in Norfolk.
Sorry that you took exception, wolfphotos, it wasn't completely intended (although I find it intriguing upsetting a pseudonym) goldenwingedwarbler has pointed out important aspects of 'forms', which I wouldn't go into as I don't for personal and political reasons.
However, there are a couple of your points that I would like to take up.
Firstly, you comment on taking pictures and identifying them at home. In 'the good old days' (when people took notes and had fieldcraft, both in their birding and their twitching) I believe that the majority of birds would have been identified 'in the field'. It is interesting that people bemoan the lack of notebooks, but can the same be said about the lack of fieldguides actually used in the 'field'. If these photographers had a copy of Collins on them, then they would have realised that it wasn't a Common Crane (and if they had looked in the back, that it was a Sandhill and that it was very rare!)
Secondly, your comment about proof that the bird was there. You seemed to miss my starter about the benefits of photography, where I was alluding to this. Some people are very happy the bird was photographed in Norfolk and that it therefore adds to the natural history of the county (I won't delve into the issues of photos not actually being proof these days!) - although with counties being political, rather than natural divisions this doesn't have the same effect on me (except as a dirty filthy twitcher, whose only important list is his county one - I know, I'm an anomaly!)
Thirdly, you seem to have made the assumption that the people who got the pics were there because of the High Tide Roost Spectacular, therefore they would have known about the RSPB and could have reported it to them earlier if they had wanted to, so the 'who to report it to' speaks for itself! (and as far as being present on this particular day, the idea of 'enjoying' this spectacular with 100s of other people, when there are plenty of other opportunities to do so in more solitude, is not something I'd choose to do - I leave that for one-off occasions, where there might not be another opportunity to experience the occasions, like twitches!) Also, remember that the bird in question was found further North of the RSPB Wader Spectacular.
Fourthly, you mention the 'poor Little Bittern'. Does anyone think that the bird was affected by the people? The fact that it kept on appearing (irregularly) in the same area, rather than departing sooner (or just further back into the reeds) makes me wonder! I know the behaviour could have been better and I, for one, continue to promote and expect good behaviour at twitches, I never saw people going down the bank and would have mentioned it to them at the time. I know after the 'first' day that there was a request not to stand on the bank (I didn't hear this being asked on the Saturday, but would have helped to manage it if the RSPB Wardens had tried to 'enforce' this) so hope that the request was adhered to and if not, why not. The time I spent there on the Saturday was often fraught, but not really badly behaved. Can I please apologise on behalf of the group I represent if you personally was affected.
Fifthly, I have no expectations that 'normal' people would report their bird sightings (or even read) on this thread on bird forum, although that is an option that we would like to promote (recent 'abuse' (as you call it) on here has been less to do with the actual birds, than the circumstances of the sighting and the willingness to listen to more experienced opinions)
From reading your post I have made the assumption that the birds are just part of your particular hobby and that you take pictures because you are 'only interested in the beauty of the subject and capturing it for future enjoyment' (wasn't sure if this was meant ironically) and that is a beautiful sentiment. Hopefully, from your experiences, you also realise that others get their interest and enjoyments in other ways, that you and others could bring, through what you do.
Live and let live. I hope that someday we accidently meet and I point out something to you that you get great enjoyment out of, in the same way i would have got great enjoyment out of seeing the Sandhill Crane in Norfolk.
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O.Reville1989
I started off with nothing and I've still got some
Yellow-Browed Warbler in Cromer just after 5pm! Decent garden tick whoever got that one.
ben_lewis
Well-known member
There are several wing tagging schemes for Marsh Harriers on the go at the moment;
Sculthorpe Moor have tagged tagged a few harriers with lime green tags on both wings and coded with letters. The Swale Wader Ringing Group have tagged Marsh Harriers again with a combination of white on the left wing and yellow on the right sporting a numbered code One of these birds was seen in Norfolk on 24/08/11. Strumpshaw had 3 or 4 harriers last winter which were tagged from the Isle of Sheppy are so they seem to find their way up here from Kent with more frequency than first thought.
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
Photos and retrospective ID- picking up from David’s #13351
I have done this, previously commented on it and see it as part of the wider range of techniques available to us now, compared with birders attempting to ID Radde’s Warbler from Coward, in the days pre-Peterson !
On my foreign trips, I have on several occasions snapped birds with a rough idea of what they were: cuckoo, parrotbill, leaf warbler, say. When a bird wave is travelling through the rain forest, there is sometimes little time to do much more than this- certainly identifying every bird is often impossible.
It is only subsequently, when consulting field guides/photobases/others more experienced in that region’s birds, or just enlarging the image on the PC monitor, that an ID has been confirmed.
It also would be quite easy for an inexperienced observer to believe that Our Crane was, in fact, a young Common.
I’m just glad it didn’t ‘escape’ Norfolk- as most of the other raries seem to have done so far this autumn.
I have done this, previously commented on it and see it as part of the wider range of techniques available to us now, compared with birders attempting to ID Radde’s Warbler from Coward, in the days pre-Peterson !
On my foreign trips, I have on several occasions snapped birds with a rough idea of what they were: cuckoo, parrotbill, leaf warbler, say. When a bird wave is travelling through the rain forest, there is sometimes little time to do much more than this- certainly identifying every bird is often impossible.
It is only subsequently, when consulting field guides/photobases/others more experienced in that region’s birds, or just enlarging the image on the PC monitor, that an ID has been confirmed.
It also would be quite easy for an inexperienced observer to believe that Our Crane was, in fact, a young Common.
I’m just glad it didn’t ‘escape’ Norfolk- as most of the other raries seem to have done so far this autumn.
Nick Moran
Well-known member
I've been in the same boat - for me the questions are: do you tick 'em and if so, what's the point (unless you're involved in an ecological survey / inventory of the species of said foreign forest)?
Don't most 'serious birders' at least have a copy of Collins in the car? Can't remember the last time I took mine with me from the boot 'into the field' but let's face it, Scolt aside, you can be back at your car in 20mins from most birding sites in Norfolk if you're on to something interesting...
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David Norgate
Well-known member
I'm definitely not arguing if the bird is then identified by the photographer (the rest is another thread)
But one wonders about these observers, I wonder if they 'keep' lists. I'm sure they are ecstatic that they photographed such a fascinating occurence, but don't expect them to have lists (unless it's a 'birds I've photographed list'
And it seems to be only me that cannot get excited about this addition to the Norfolk list (as stated a 'political' list rather than a 'natural' one, just ask the Suffolk listers who 'take' south of Breydon
)David Norgate
Well-known member
True, mine's in the car, too!! Like your '....' quote marks :t:
Nick Moran
Well-known member
'serious birder' = birder who *takes him or herself too seriously/doesn't take him or herself too seriously
* delete as applicable
* delete as applicable
David Norgate
Well-known member
:t::-O:t:
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
Hmm ?
This one's interesting, Nick.
#1 Not if I hadn't seen the bird, with at least some idea of its ID, as I said.
Then, we encounter the dilemma of those who've photographed something, only to realise later that it's 'there', without having seen it. Say, it was a 'first' for the country, etc. They could submit it, have it accepted, as the photographer- but not put it on their list !
#2 Try the end of Burnham Overy Dunes, The Point or the mythical island. I guarantee, unless you're Mo Farah, you won't make it in 20 mins. And he doesn't usually run encumbered with bins, 'scope, camera, food and drink.
This one's interesting, Nick.
#1 Not if I hadn't seen the bird, with at least some idea of its ID, as I said.
Then, we encounter the dilemma of those who've photographed something, only to realise later that it's 'there', without having seen it. Say, it was a 'first' for the country, etc. They could submit it, have it accepted, as the photographer- but not put it on their list !
#2 Try the end of Burnham Overy Dunes, The Point or the mythical island. I guarantee, unless you're Mo Farah, you won't make it in 20 mins. And he doesn't usually run encumbered with bins, 'scope, camera, food and drink.
