Rare and Scarce in Yorkshire (2 Viewers)

[Lawts]

Not wanting to stir anything up but purely interested in how this works in practise..... who does this record get submitted to for acceptance? Cleveland or Yorkshire and if one accepts it does the other have to?

Not sure about Cleveland, but for Yorkshire the finder, and anyone else can submit the record to the VC 62 recorder.

The BBRC still report on Red-breasted Goose so if the VC62 recorder felt it appropriate the record would be submitted to the BBRC.

The BBRC will acccept some wildfowl records but often say in the notes that truly wild origin cannot be 100% proven, so even though some birds go on the British list figures it still doesn't alter the situation that at times there is no real way of knowing if a bird is wild.

I guess all you can do is use the BBRC report as a guide. If it's felt it is obviously an escape it won't get that far on submission. However, someone has to submit the record first.

 

[schiffornis]

A White Stork (of unknown origin) was present in Sherburn-in-Elmet today.

 

[Mark Newsome]

...Do they breed ferally on the near continent, or indeed anywhere around Teesside/North Yorkshire, (no history of escapes in the region to my knowledge)?

From RBBP report on non-native species 2003-05: "Yorkshire 2003 One site: a clutch of eggs at Nosterfield Nature Reserve in mid June had disappeared by early July." So they certainly attempted in N Yorks recently, but not sure about last few years.
However, they bred successfully in Suffolk in 2010, and up to 5 were present at Minsmere in September 2010 (and at least 4 still present there now, with feral Barnacles).

So........If it was a Spurn with the Brents we'd all be ticking it. We are therefore talking about 100 miles and a few Brents....

That 100 miles can sometimes make a big difference. There is a history of Red-breasted Geese with Dark-bellied Brents in the Wash, on the North Lincolnshire coast and also occasionally appearing on the mudflats and eelgrass at Spurn; the expected carrier species at the expected time of year. There's not much history of lone RBG's appearing on rock pools in North Yorkshire. Also, there had been no passage of wild Barnacle Geese or Dark-bellied Brents when the bird turned up; I can't see why a juv from an extremely social flocking species would become seperated/travel on its own from Siberia.

Although unringed and full winged and we'll never know for certain, in my opinion, a RBG with feral Canadas and Greylags on a moorland reservoir will have little chance of acceptance as a wild bird.

Mark

 

[The Rovin' Outlaw]

Then again, if your happy that it's a wild bird and like me you don't care what the tick police think, you count it, I did.

 

[Lawts]

Then again, if your happy that it's a wild bird and like me you don't care what the tick police think, you count it, I did.

Each to their own but I struggle to see how you can accept it until it has been officially accepted - how can you be happy it's a wild bird?

 

[arthur heaton]

Wonder if the Stork is the one we've seen at Harewood this year?

 

[Hotspur]

Each to their own but I struggle to see how you can accept it until it has been officially accepted - how can you be happy it's a wild bird?

I tend to tick stuff on gut and then follow committees when they get to their decision but I see no problem with others forming an informed opinion about a birds origin and staying with that even if a committee decides otherwise. Its a bit of a lemming strategy just accepting what a committee decides - Mugimaki looks like it will be Cat A eventually after the Italian record and now 4 WP records. Booted Eagle is another which seems to have got a raw deal. If I had seen either of those I wouldnt be binning them entirely. Admittedly in this case I think its a fence hopper BUT that is only my opinion.

 

[The Rovin' Outlaw]

Each to their own but I struggle to see how you can accept it until it has been officially accepted - how can you be happy it's a wild bird?

Perhaps the bird isn't of much importance and I don't want to cause any trouble here, and I respect your opinion very much, but lets not rule it out out of hand.
I understand that it goes against the grain for more serious or better birdwatchers than myself of which you are one, but the bird has no rings or other identifiable marks. It flies, swims and feeds and sleeps like a wild bird. It has arrived at the right time of year. If it had appeared in June I would have to agree with the general consensus.
Birds turn up in all sorts of unusual places. If it was some rare finch or warbler everyone would be saying it's lost or sick or something but because it's a goose it's most likely escaped from somewhere. The truth is that nobody really knows for sure and most likely never will know where it came from.
I don't compair my lists with anyone and I sure aren't in competition with anyone and if I think it is most likely wild (and theres more than me who does) then on those grounds I can count it for myself and my own needs only. If some self elected body who haven't even seen the bird want to rule it out, just because it's not common in those circumstances I can't do anything about that.

 

[northernloon]

Fair do's Rovin', if you happy with it stick it on your list. There was a thread called 'ticking rules' where such things were discussed. Everybody has there own rules.

For my own part the garden list includes anything seen from my flat, as opposed to actually in the garden. As I live on the first floor it seems reasonable to me.

One unwelcome addition, in the garden earlier this week, a grey squiggle

 

[Lawts]

Perhaps the bird isn't of much importance and I don't want to cause any trouble here, and I respect your opinion very much, but lets not rule it out out of hand.
I understand that it goes against the grain for more serious or better birdwatchers than myself of which you are one, but the bird has no rings or other identifiable marks. It flies, swims and feeds and sleeps like a wild bird. It has arrived at the right time of year. If it had appeared in June I would have to agree with the general consensus.
Birds turn up in all sorts of unusual places. If it was some rare finch or warbler everyone would be saying it's lost or sick or something but because it's a goose it's most likely escaped from somewhere. The truth is that nobody really knows for sure and most likely never will know where it came from.
I don't compair my lists with anyone and I sure aren't in competition with anyone and if I think it is most likely wild (and theres more than me who does) then on those grounds I can count it for myself and my own needs only. If some self elected body who haven't even seen the bird want to rule it out, just because it's not common in those circumstances I can't do anything about that.

Rovin, check the earlier posts on the thread. I posted earlier that it shouldn't be dismissed without consideration, and did actually suggest some supporting factors. There are things for and against. Maybe a discarded feather might help.

However, as a general principle I think you do need an official list. For example if I go to Spain or the USA or wherever and ask the question has X species ever occurred, there should be an official position. You can't really operate with a system whereby the response would be....well I say no, but if you ask Steve three doors down he'll say yes - every country needs control IMO.

For the record I will be planning to see the bird for insurance. It cannot harm.

 

[The Rovin' Outlaw]

For the record I will be planning to see the bird for insurance. It cannot harm.

Perhaps that's what I am doing.

If I had a tick for every bird I've seen that I haven't counted because I've been unsure about it or had any doubt about it I would be very happy. If someone could offer some evidence about this bird I would be more than happy to discount it. Other than that its a new bird for me so this time I want to count it.

Your quote from Cool Hand Luke sums a lot of things up for me.

 

[EddieLeadbetter]

Wonder if the Stork is the one we've seen at Harewood this year?

Isn't this the bird seen nearby ringed with poor wings?

 

[EddieLeadbetter]

Then again, if your happy that it's a wild bird and like me you don't care what the tick police think, you count it, I did.

That's like Rooney picking up the ball and running into the the other sides goal and then saying "by my rules that's a goal". No harm enjoying pretty birds but what's the ******* point of keeping a list which can't be compared with your mates.8-P

 

[EddieLeadbetter]

Any early thoughts on this bird?

Just wanted to debate:-

a) It's a juv.

b) It sounds like it turned up on the beach at Saltburn - after a long flight?

It's now with Greylags and Canadas, but possibly natural behaviour to connect with other geese albeit they aren't the normal carrier species.

I know Scaling has had a history of odd species of rare wildfowl, but it wasn't found there.

Was out of action at the time but didn't one turn up in Teesside before then Tophill Low NR and Nosterfield NR. BBRC accepted at Teesside and rejected it in Yorkshire. When the stupidity of the was pointed out they rejected it for Teesside. Can't see this bird been treated any better.

 

[Lawts]

Perhaps that's what I am doing.

If I had a tick for every bird I've seen that I haven't counted because I've been unsure about it or had any doubt about it I would be very happy. If someone could offer some evidence about this bird I would be more than happy to discount it. Other than that its a new bird for me so this time I want to count it.

Your quote from Cool Hand Luke sums a lot of things up for me.

Rovin glad you recognised where the quote was from!

I don't mind the odd insurance tick - I went to Ireland for the House Crow - "I guess you could say I wasn't thinking Captain"

 

[liverpool_bob]

If someone could offer some evidence about this bird I would be more than happy to discount it.

You're unlikely to get any proof it's escaped so I guess that means it stays on the list.

The good news is there will be another one along at some point you can feel better about ticking

 

[Lawts]

You're unlikely to get any proof it's escaped so I guess that means it stays on the list.

The good news is there will be another one along at some point you can feel better about ticking

There is a guy in the Saltburn area who has a wildfowl collection apparently - not saying he's lost a R-bG. It can probably be checked. There was something on a Teesside birding website about the collection, so I was informed.

So....it can sometimes be proven.

 

[The Rovin' Outlaw]

That's like Rooney picking up the ball and running into the the other sides goal and then saying "by my rules that's a goal". No harm enjoying pretty birds but what's the ******* point of keeping a list which can't be compared with your mates.8-P

Isn't that supposed to be how they invented rugby (Myth).
I do this because I like "enjoying pretty birds" and not because I am in competition with anyone. I don't do the "Im a better birdwatcher than you because I've got a bigger list" thing.
What happens if I see something mega rare when I'm out on my own. Say I reported it and nobody else saw it becasuse it had moved on before they got there. I don't always go to reserves so theres always the chance that nobody sees the birds I see. Am I not allowed to count it because it's not 'OFFICIAL' If I'm not playing in your league do I have to play by your rules

 

[EddieLeadbetter]

Isn't that supposed to be how they invented rugby (Myth).
I do this because I like "enjoying pretty birds" and not because I am in competition with anyone. I don't do the "Im a better birdwatcher than you because I've got a bigger list" thing.
What happens if I see something mega rare when I'm out on my own. Say I reported it and nobody else saw it becasuse it had moved on before they got there. I don't always go to reserves so theres always the chance that nobody sees the birds I see. Am I not allowed to count it because it's not 'OFFICIAL' If I'm not playing in your league do I have to play by your rules

Sure matey. Rooney can go and run around on his own kicking a ball and have fun.
Seeing more birds doesn't make you a better birder just that you've got the time and money to chase other peoples birds. I used to do it, but was out of action for 15 years so no point competitive listing now.
We all run the risk of finding something no-one else sees. If you can submit a good description and aren't a known stringer, you can prove the doubters wrong later.
You can count what you like but what's the point of having a list of birds and include birds widely considered as dodgy.
Then again it's your 'ball' so do with it as you want:t:
Don't follow Lee-ders, watch your parking meters.

 

[sidwemn]

There is a guy in the Saltburn area who has a wildfowl collection apparently - not saying he's lost a R-bG. It can probably be checked. There was something on a Teesside birding website about the collection, so I was informed.

So....it can sometimes be proven.

From what I understand, the local wildfowl "collections" have been checked out and none are missing a RBG

Martyn