• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

They're only Pigeons (1 Viewer)

ChrisKten

It's true, I quite like Pigeons
I'm not sure if this will be of interest to others, but I suspect many people will be unaware of what happens to many Feral Pigeons; so I thought that I'd post it anyway.

A few years ago, I started a thread in another forum about this subject, but I've not started a thread about it here... until now. I was always wary of airing this here, even though it's a bird forum, as Pigeons are often treated like "flying rats" (with thanks to Ken Livingstone's Mayor of London Media Department for the now common expression) by many many "Bird Lovers" in this forum.

I've attached a few pictures to this thread; each is of an injured/maimed/disabled (not sure which word to use) Pigeon. These Pigeons were born healthy, and apart from missing feet/toes/leg, most still are healthy. You'll find lots of info online about this; lots of "causes" for these "deformities": "Their droppings are acidic and dissolve their feet" - "It's caused by a virus/Parasite/Disease" - "It's caused by bad Nutrition, as they eat the rubbish we discard" And IME, none of those "causes" are close to the truth.

I've about 60 Feral Pigeons in my garden each day; not always the same birds, but mostly the same birds (maybe 40 are daily visitors). Every so often (anything from 3 one day to one each month) a Pigeon shows up hobbled; it's feet and/or legs tangled-up in a fine nylon thread. Actually it's more like Wool than thread, but it's impossible to break without cutting it. So the affected Pigeon tries to walk, falls over, and the thread gets tighter. The thread also gets caught on twigs/leaves; so the Pigeon will build up a collection of leaves/twigs, and this mass is attached to the thread. This mass of leaves/twigs also helps the thread to tighten around the feet/toes of the Pigeon. Pecking at the thread or leaves does nothing; although sometimes it tightens the thread more.

So you have a bird that finds it increasingly painful to use it's legs; legs that birds use each time they take flight, walking is only half the problem. Eventually the thread becomes so tight that it cuts off the blood supply to what is below; so the feet/toes rot and eventually fall off (Quite disconcerting when it happens to a bird that's perched on my hand). Some of these Pigeons don't last that long, as infection can kill some of them. Others, being too slow to take off (hobbled, and in pain) are easy meat for Cats, and also late on getting out of the way of cars.

I've lost count of how many that I've caught and removed the thread from; I've also lost count of how many it was too late to help, as the damage had already been done. Often the thread is so tight that it's become part of the skin; you'd need to amputate to remove the thread.

So why does it keep happening? What is this fine nylon that Pigeons get tangled-up in? Is it just an unfortunate accident due to where they feed?

None of the above; apparently it's due to a type of Anti-roost Netting. The Pigeons that I see are the lucky ones; the unlucky ones died of starvation/dehydration while hanging from the netting that they got tangled-up in. I've no idea what, if any, alternatives there are to this Netting, but it seems like a rather cruel way of dealing with the problem.

I happen to like Pigeons, I admire their tenacity; their ability to survive no matter what we throw at them. But even if I hated Pigeons, I still wouldn't want them to be tortured. I would think that shooting the Pigeons would be more humane than this torture.

I should add that this type of netting isn't just used for Pigeons, it's used to deter other species too (Gulls, Starlings, etc)

Oh, the last picture is a female that's been visiting my garden for over six years. When she first appeared in the garden she had a foot that was tangled up to look more like a claw. I didn't catch her at the time, as I could see there was nothing I could do to help, and I didn't trust the Vet not to euthanase her. Gradually, the toes without a blood supply started to rot and drop off; eventually the whole foot rotted and dropped off, and she ended up like she is in the picture. I can't imagine the pain she must have felt, and the fear she must have felt whenever the other Pigeons spooked and flew off. She was always the last to leave, as I imagine the pain delayed her for just a second. She's mated many times over the years, and has actually just mated with a male that has just one toe left on one of his feet.

And yes, I've seen the whole process over time, of healthy bird to missing foot... some are just too difficult to catch, or have reached the stage where the Vet would euthanase them.

So next time you're feeling sorry for yourself (maybe you've a headache or a bit of a Cold), remember it's nothing compared to what could happen if you was a Pigeon.

Oh, and one other thing; do you remember the little old lady feeding the Pigeons in Marry Poppins? Singing "Feed the birds tupence a bag"? Have any of you heard of Cher Ami http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part1/3b_cherami.html What changed? How did we get from feeding the Pigeons to crippling them on a regular basis? Why isn't this cruelty?
 

Attachments

  • P1000817Rpf900.JPG
    P1000817Rpf900.JPG
    171.2 KB · Views: 62
  • P1020082Rpf900.JPG
    P1020082Rpf900.JPG
    225.3 KB · Views: 59
  • P1340178Rpf.JPG
    P1340178Rpf.JPG
    179.3 KB · Views: 55
  • P1340204RGpf900.JPG
    P1340204RGpf900.JPG
    169.5 KB · Views: 55
  • P1340845Rpf900.JPG
    P1340845Rpf900.JPG
    172.3 KB · Views: 64
It's very sad Chris.

What to say really? It is a cruel way to treat animals.
 
I have to say, that the fact only Delia and Sue had enough interest to post, speaks volumes. I think I'll start a thread on Mallards next...

I wonder what response I would have got if the Pigeons (Gulls, Starlings, and Swifts) were Robins, or Bitterns, or... I bet there'd be indignant replies posting links to e-petitions.

I'll just add one paragraph: if anyone reading this is using this netting, you are causing suffering to wild birds. It's effects are felt for the remainder of the injured bird's (often painful) life. If anyone from the RSPCA is reading this (or knew about it already), you should be ashamed of yourselves

(I usually add a liberal sprinkling of smilies, not this time)
 
I hadn't realised it was caused by netting Chris - thank you for that, I shall correct people in the future (I already get on my soapbox when people call them filthy creatures). It always saddens me when I watch the local pigeons to see the ones with mutilated feet, and it will more-so now I know the cause! I think they're great animals too; you only have to watch the closeness of a pair preening one another to see that.
 
I have to say, that the fact only Delia and Sue had enough interest to post, speaks volumes.

Seriously? You start a thread with a vague title that doesn't reveal what the thread is about, state in the first paragraph that it may not be of interest to others, require the reader to wade through eight paragraphs before gaining an inkling of what your post is about, and then complain about a lack of response? That's requiring everyone to put in a lot of work to even find out what the topic is, let alone determine if it interests them.
 
Last edited:
If it's a anti-roosting net, I would have thought it would have to pass some form of test not to injure. If it hasn't wouldn't it be illegal?

I don't know the laws of the UK in regards to this, but there is definitely something wrong if the net keeps breaking and injuring birds. It doesn't matter what species the birds are. It's wrong.
 
I hadn't realised it was caused by netting Chris - thank you for that, I shall correct people in the future (I already get on my soapbox when people call them filthy creatures). It always saddens me when I watch the local pigeons to see the ones with mutilated feet, and it will more-so now I know the cause! I think they're great animals too; you only have to watch the closeness of a pair preening one another to see that.

I'm a bit obsessed by it, Paul, as it's the first thing I see when I look out of the window. I do catch a lot, but they know they're vulnerable when hobbled, so aren't easy to catch (apart from the ones I hand feed).

I was amazed to learn from a member in the other forum that I posted this, that their neighbour used similar netting to stop Swifts nesting under the eves of their house.
 
Seriously? You start a thread with a vague title that doesn't reveal what the thread is about, state in the first paragraph that it may not be of interest to others, require the reader to wade through eight paragraphs before gaining an inkling of what your post is about, and then complain about a lack of response? That's requiring everyone to put in a lot of work to even find out what the topic is, let alone determine if it interests them.

Shall I try: "They're only Bitterns" ?
 
I agree with you Chris. this is being ignored. A lot of people see gulls pigeons and starlings as pests. Some think all birds are pests. My brother in laws neighbour objected to him feeding birds because they flew over his property to get to the feeder and had the nerve to defecate on his lawn. Its as though some species have sub status, that they are lesser species. Like Peregrine projects over here, they want rid of pigeons but are not prepared to have bits of dead ones below the peregrine roost and nests, so they vote against it and employ methods tht you describe. People see a feral pigeon and are disappointed. They want a real bird for their list. I was on Sao Miguel last month and saw many feral pigeons on the cliffs around the coast behaving as any rock dove would in a natural environment. To me, it was great to see them in a natural environment without being abused by city dwellers. The more people are removed from nature, the less they understand or have time for it. Common sense for you and I doesn't come into it. In German law, animals are treated as objects and as such have an arbitary value placed on them. Only endangered species get special status and of course humans. The RSPB should have a campaign against netting/spikes on buildings/broken bottles, but human property is more valuable than any bird's health in the eyes of the law.
 
Seriously? You start a thread with a vague title that doesn't reveal what the thread is about, state in the first paragraph that it may not be of interest to others, require the reader to wade through eight paragraphs before gaining an inkling of what your post is about, and then complain about a lack of response? That's requiring everyone to put in a lot of work to even find out what the topic is, let alone determine if it interests them.

BTW; I note you've not commented on the subject of the thread
 
I have to say, that the fact only Delia and Sue had enough interest to post, speaks volumes. I think I'll start a thread on Mallards next...

I wonder what response I would have got if the Pigeons (Gulls, Starlings, and Swifts) were Robins, or Bitterns, or... I bet there'd be indignant replies posting links to e-petitions.

I'll just add one paragraph: if anyone reading this is using this netting, you are causing suffering to wild birds. It's effects are felt for the remainder of the injured bird's (often painful) life. If anyone from the RSPCA is reading this (or knew about it already), you should be ashamed of yourselves

(I usually add a liberal sprinkling of smilies, not this time)

Sorry, Chris, I started to comment but couldn't think of anything to say other than "How appalling!" (which indeed it is) so didn't bother in the end. I encounter big flocks of pigeons almost daily at the local parks here in Reno--beautiful confiding creatures that I'm always happy to see but that other local birders tend to be contemptuous of for reasons I have zero sympathy with. The pigeons themselves I'm glad to say are bright-eyed and healthy--I don't believe I've ever seen a sick pigeon in Reno and certainly not the kind of mutilations shown in your photographs. And, of course, here as in other places, pigeon feeding is a public good--an inexpensive form of entertainment enjoyed by all kinds of people, particularly low-income families with small children.

Getting back to London situation, I'm surprised the animal rights folks aren't up in arms against the netting. . ..
 
Last edited:
Sorry, Chris, I started to comment but couldn't think of anything to say other than "How appalling!" (which indeed it is) so didn't bother in the end. I encounter big flocks of pigeons almost daily at the local parks here in Reno--beautiful confiding creatures that I'm always happy to see but that other local birders tend to be contemptuous of for reasons I have zero sympathy with. The pigeons themselves I'm glad to say are bright-eyed and healthy--I don't believe I've ever seen a sick pigeon in Reno and certainly not the kind of mutilations shown in your photographs. And, of course, here as in other places, pigeon feeding is a public good--an inexpensive form of entertainment enjoyed by all kinds of people, particularly low-income families with small children.

Getting back to London situation, I'm surprised the animal rights folks aren't up in arms against the netting. . ..

I'm pleased to hear your local Pigeons are fine, Fred.

I'm not sure what happened in the UK, as the general attitude to Pigeons never used to be like this. Some people still remember how many lives Pigeons saved during Wars (other Animals saved lives too). Obviously it wasn't a concious decision by the Pigeons to save lives, but that doesn't change the fact that they did (Cher Ami being one of many).

I'm not certain of this, but this is how I remember it at the time:

Tourists used to visit Trafalgar Square in London, and feeding the Pigeons was an important part of the visit (That's why I mentioned Mary Poppins, because it was something that people did).

I'm not sure of the year, but Ken Livingstone was Mayor of London, and he decided the cost of clearing up Trafalgar Square was more than the contribution made by tourists to the local economy. He started a media campaign to get the public on his side; the phrase "Flying Rats" was coined by someone in the media department. Eventually the Public came to believe that Pigeons were indeed Flying Rats, and that our children were at serious risk of disease.

I think the Falconers jumped on the bandwagon first, as it was a great way of getting a regular income. I say "regular income", as none of the Hawks being flown could catch a healthy Pigeon. The Hawks could catch sick Pigeons, so the Pigeon populations were actually strengthened.

Next was the Pest Controllers, various Spikes and Nets were installed to deter the Pigeons. In the end, it was realised that nothing would work, as Pigeons would keep returning for the food provided by the nice Tourists, so they made it illegal to feed the Pigeons in Trafalgar Square.

It went downhill from there, we now have a situation where Pigeons are "Pests", and there's money to be made from Pest Control. I uploaded pictures to other forums about 10 years ago, before I joined this forum. The consensus was the netting was probably a cheap alternative to what could be used safely.

Sorry for the long post... I can't shorten it any more than this ;)
 
Getting back to London situation, I'm surprised the animal rights folks aren't up in arms against the netting. . ..

If the netting were put down by rich people out in the countryside or by people in red coats on horses then no doubt the people haters sorry I mean ''animal lovers'' would be up in arms.
 
I live in a town centre and feral pigeons are part n parcel of my daily visits, one (Boris) even feeds from my hand but is very territorial over the bird table, that is why my granddaughter calls him "Boris the Bully" so there's normally lots of chest puffing and cooing, personally i think they are a pleasure to watch but in biased because all birds/animals are beautiful in there own way.

Damian.
 
One cannot ignore that they ARE pests and their population size should be controlled, but I agree that these nets are very cruel. To my knowledge they are not used here.
 
. . .I'm not sure of the year, but Ken Livingstone was Mayor of London, and he decided the cost of clearing up Trafalgar Square was more than the contribution made by tourists to the local economy. He started a media campaign to get the public on his side; the phrase "Flying Rats" was coined by someone in the media department. Eventually the Public came to believe that Pigeons were indeed Flying Rats, and that our children were at serious risk of disease. . . .

Interesting. I was unaware that "flying rat" was a British invention. Unfortunately, it's crossed the Atlantic and is now widely applied here not only to pigeons but to starlings and House Sparrows as well and I've even heard crows & grackles so described. A very dislikeable term.
 
One cannot ignore that they ARE pests and their population size should be controlled, but I agree that these nets are very cruel. To my knowledge they are not used here.

No biggest pest than human... if culling is ethically acceptable (on which I don't agree), then it should be apply to human first...

I think an animal should never be assassinated.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 9 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top