They're only Pigeons (1 Viewer)

[Andy Hurley]

Reintroducing apex predators would be a better solution.

 

[Swindon Addick]

Reintroducing apex predators would be a better solution.

Absolutely - if people think there are too many feral pigeons then they should provide more nesting sites for urban peregrines, and wait. A much better solution to the alleged problem.

It's a while since I've seen anti-roost netting in use. Some underground stations use spikes on ledges where they're directly above the platforms while leaving equivalent structures over the tracks unprotected. The idea is that you don't try to drive the birds away (which is pretty much impossible) but encourage them to sit somewhere where their droppings won't annoy people. The spikes look better than netting, and last longer.

But actually, I'm going to agree with Red Ken on the eventual policy adopted for the pigeons in Trafalgar Square. If you want to reduce the number of pigeons in a particular location, spikes, nets etc aren't very effective. Just stop feeding them, and they'll go somewhere else. Various seaside towns try to do the same with herring gulls - if they're not fed, they won't hang around trying to steal chips from people.

 

[Paul Chapman]

As to first use of the term 'flying rat':-

http://m.discoverwildlife.com/british-wildlife/feral-pigeon-flying-rat-or-urban-hero

'It was the satirist Tom Lehrer who started the rot in 1959 with his song Poisoning Pigeons in the Park, which explained that it takes only a smidgen of strychnine and “it’s not against any religion to want to dispose of a pigeon” (though I doubt that many Buddhists or Jains would agree).

However, Woody Allen delivered the coup de grâce in his 1980 film Stardust Memories, when he referred to feral pigeons as “rats with wings”.

The term had first appeared in 1966 in an article in The New York Times, but Allen’s film reached a much wider audience. It was the final nail in the coffin for these birds – what could be more damning than to be on a par with rats?'

This was the first website result I found from Google using appropriate search terms:-

http://www.pigeoncontrolresourcecentre.org/html/pigeon-pest-control-and-the-law.html

I only skim-read it but it seemed quite balanced including mentioning cruelty and the ineffectiveness of netting.

All the best

 

[string boozel]

I think the problem with feral pigeons and other successful urban birds is that familiarity breeds contempt yet for many city dwellers these species are often their only contact with nature.

I can understand that there may be a need to control pigeons in certain circumstances but would hope that they could employ more humane methods. Judging from the images you've provided it seems that nets may not be the answer. I agree with the other people that have suggested that encouraging urban Peregrines might be a better way of controlling pigeon populations, a quick, clean kill is surely better than a lingering and painful death brought about by damaged and infected limbs.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'm as guilty as many others when it comes to ignoring feral pigeons.

James.

 

[h14nha]

Where I regularly have my dinner in a South Wales park, the minute you sit down about 50 Pigeons fly right at you. There's always one who will literally hover right in you face to get food. This aggressive behaviour wins them no friends, even I as a bird lover get frustrated.

You're right about the foot deformities, there are many hobbling on stumps. When I go up onto city rooftops where companies put up netting, it's usually the gulls which get caught up. One place where I go there's a large glass foyer, they have self cleaning glass which, unfortunately for them doesn't work with bird droppings. It costs them thousands each time to get it cleaned. When I worked in maintenance for a large factory, we usually got a hawk to scare birds off during the breeding season. The gull droppings would be on every square foot of the roof, and the roof was many football pitches in size. In the factory, they employed a high pitch emitter to keep the pigeons out.

The bonus of the Pigeons presence, I can hear the Peregrines calling as I eat...........

 

[Mike Crawley]

I don't want to disrespect you PoV but you say that the netting is apparently responsible for these injuries/deformities. Is there any literature available in this matter ? I don't doubt your sincerity but if this is such a problem I would have thought someone (RSPB ?) would have done some study into the netting and its detrimental effects.

 

[etudiant]

I agree with the other people that have suggested that encouraging urban Peregrines might be a better way of controlling pigeon populations, a quick, clean kill is surely better than a lingering and painful death brought about by damaged and infected limbs.
James.

While basically in full agreement with this, I'd be hesitant about the 'quick clean kill' aspect.
Peregrines in NYC pluck and eat pigeons that are still quite alive. Other raptors do the same. Pinewood and I watched a young Red Tailed Hawk start eating a Flicker even as it was squirming and trying to escape the hawk's grip. Nature is rarely quick or clean.

 

[ChrisKten]

Thanks to all that have contributed.

I actually know that the RSPCA are aware of this problem, especially the damage done by frayed or ripped netting. But the birds are still getting caught up and injured. Here's a bit more info:

http://blogs.rspca.org.uk/insights/2013/08/27/birds-and-netting-a-deadly-combination/

If the RSPCA needs more evidence, I've at least 30 Pigeons in my garden that are injured by netting... more regularly arrive

 

[fugl]

As to first use of the term 'flying rat':-

http://m.discoverwildlife.com/british-wildlife/feral-pigeon-flying-rat-or-urban-hero

'It was the satirist Tom Lehrer who started the rot in 1959 with his song Poisoning Pigeons in the Park, which explained that it takes only a smidgen of strychnine and “it’s not against any religion to want to dispose of a pigeon” (though I doubt that many Buddhists or Jains would agree).

However, Woody Allen delivered the coup de grâce in his 1980 film Stardust Memories, when he referred to feral pigeons as “rats with wings”.

The term had first appeared in 1966 in an article in The New York Times, but Allen’s film reached a much wider audience. It was the final nail in the coffin for these birds – what could be more damning than to be on a par with rats?'

This was the first website result I found from Google using appropriate search terms:-

http://www.pigeoncontrolresourcecentre.org/html/pigeon-pest-control-and-the-law.html

I only skim-read it but it seemed quite balanced including mentioning cruelty and the ineffectiveness of netting.

Thanks for all the interesting info. If I'd known how recent a figure Ken Livingstone was, I too would have smelled a rat.

 

[fugl]

Reintroducing apex predators would be a better solution.

But would it work? I doubt if the impact on urban pigeon numbers of a few Peregrines would even come close to satisfying the pigeon haters.

 

[Fozzybear]

I'm a bit obsessed by it, Paul, as it's the first thing I see when I look out of the window. I do catch a lot, but they know they're vulnerable when hobbled, so aren't easy to catch (apart from the ones I hand feed).

I was amazed to learn from a member in the other forum that I posted this, that their neighbour used similar netting to stop Swifts nesting under the eves of their house.

:eek!:

I can understand the obsession when you see them so often. I shall keep an eye out for netting though I can only think of one place that I know has it (small vertical pieces over three sculpture reliefs on the old town hall). I'm sure there's plenty out of sight given the number of injured pigeons about, and there's far too many spikes around, makes the place look like a tacky concrete recreation of the Madagascar spiny forest!

The city pigeons don't really come out to my neighbourhood (though I get to enjoy visits from Collared Doves), but I do see them out on the local farm sometimes and they're fascinating to watch when I go into town - I really enjoy sitting on a bench and watching them going about their business.

 

[Peewit]

All animals (captive, wild or Feral) have a right to live on this planet.

What you have said Chris in a very heartfelt way is very true, and it sad to find injured birds in your garden area

It is us as humans that create issues for Ferrel Pigeons, and they suffer the price each time.

Having watched daytime TV recently, (yes, that is what I do it there if something of interest) - the council and their means of getting rid of pests (Ferrel Pigeons) as they see fit is very ignorant in many ways - anything for a quiet life for them
I was shocked to see that Pigeons where caught in cages (deemed as flying rats) and once caught they had their necks broken - in front of us the TV audience. I could not watch the offending programme at all as it upset me a lot. :eek!:

Yet, there was a programme this morning called 'Oxford Street Revealed' placed the programme information in the TV part of BF (if you want to have a look).
The programme showed this Hotel in Oxford Street London (listed building) - and it eradication of Pigeons. It did this by the presence of a 'Harris Hawk' - that is a way to remove pigeons from damaging listed buildings without hurting them at all. There must be a method to the madness

Instead of harming Ferel Pigeons humans need to add their quota by not dropping food/rubbish on the floor and feeding Pigeons in the parks/streets - but humans so not abide by the rules at all - no wonder Pigeons get a bad press, and yes they breed like Pigeons

There has to be a little bit of thought from us too

Regards
Kathy
x

 

[SueO]

Seriously? You start a thread with a vague title that doesn't reveal what the thread is about, state in the first paragraph that it may not be of interest to others, require the reader to wade through eight paragraphs before gaining an inkling of what your post is about, and then complain about a lack of response? That's requiring everyone to put in a lot of work to even find out what the topic is, let alone determine if it interests them.

Jeez! Maybe you should find something other than, 'Choose Civility' to put under your name--doesn't work too well for you.

 

[SueO]

I'm not sure of the year, but Ken Livingstone was Mayor of London, and he decided the cost of clearing up Trafalgar Square was more than the contribution made by tourists to the local economy. He started a media campaign to get the public on his side; the phrase "Flying Rats" was coined by someone in the media department.

Beauty and ratishness are in the eye of the beholder I guess. I heard more than one Australian refer to Sulfur-crested Cockatoos as 'flying rats'. They are probably my favorite bird. I loved to watch them land and toss their heads down while flinging their crests open then strutting about as if they were magnificent, beautiful creatures instead of flying rats. (I happen to like rats too; had a white one named Chula when I was a kid and my son had one named Algernon.)

 

[ChrisKten]

OK, I'll be honest, I didn't expect too much interest in this subject, and my second post was a bit troll-like to try and get a response. However, I'm pleasantly surprised that there are a few more like-minded people here than I thought. I was aware of some already, but I've found a few new ones too

As for controlling Pigeon numbers... it's easy, I've been doing it for years; if I hadn't, there'd be 100s of Pigeons in my garden by now. Pigeons breed according to available food, restrict the food supply and they adjust their breeding to match. Increase the food supply (or throw take-away food in the road on your way home from the Pub...) and you increase the number of Pigeons. So there is a cruelty-free way to control Pigeon numbers, the problem is nobody has told local Councils, even though they had Trafalgar Square as an example of what was and wasn't effective.

More Peregrines would be great to see, but I don't think it would have much of an impact on Pigeon numbers; Peregrines have been eating Pigeons/Rock Doves for 1000s of years. Flying Hawks looks great... but when the Hawk goes, the Pigeons return. It's not as if the Hawk waits in trees to ambush Pigeons (Or am I assuming incorrectly), the Hawk is just flown to spook the Pigeons. Nature only designed one Raptor with the ability to catch healthy Pigeons in flight, and that's the Peregrine; even the Peregrine needs to "stoop" to catch one.

As I posted earlier, the RSPCA are aware of the harm caused by netting, but I might add a picture to this thread each time a new Pigeon turns up hobbled/injured... maybe some of you could do the same? Maybe Gulls that have suffered a similar fate? You never know, it might make someone in authority take action, although I won't hold my breath.

I might send a email to Mike Tyson, he likes Pigeons, albeit Tumblers

(BTW, Sue, Rats are smart animals... they'll be here long after Humans have died out )

 

[davercox]

Here in Dawlish the town pigeons spend a lot of time on a couple of roofs in the town centre, near the sea and railway viaduct where many of them nest.
There is anti-bird netting on some of these roofs but not all (don't know whether it's meant to be anti-pigeon or anti-gull).
After reading the OP yesterday I had a quick look at the 150 or so pigeons on the ground around there, without seeing any sign of foot injury at all. I'll keep checking.

We have a local pair of Peregrines that don't seem to affect the pigeon population at all, though they certainly do take them.

People are asked not to feed them but they certainly feed the wildfowl on the brook (including the famous Black Swans) and pigeons do well out of that.

 

[ChrisKten]

Here in Dawlish the town pigeons spend a lot of time on a couple of roofs in the town centre, near the sea and railway viaduct where many of them nest.
There is anti-bird netting on some of these roofs but not all (don't know whether it's meant to be anti-pigeon or anti-gull).
After reading the OP yesterday I had a quick look at the 150 or so pigeons on the ground around there, without seeing any sign of foot injury at all. I'll keep checking.

We have a local pair of Peregrines that don't seem to affect the pigeon population at all, though they certainly do take them.

People are asked not to feed them but they certainly feed the wildfowl on the brook (including the famous Black Swans) and pigeons do well out of that.

I've got Flu, but that's made me feel a bit better, Dave

I was worried that this was a nationwide problem, but maybe it's just a few areas.

 

[string boozel]

Perhaps it is the type of netting being used that is at fault and a less dangerous substitute could be found. It's always better to try a non lethal or natural means of control before resorting to more deadly measures. Either way good luck with your efforts to ease the suffering of these birds.

James.

 

[h14nha]

More Peregrines would be great to see, but I don't think it would have much of an impact on Pigeon numbers; Peregrines have been eating Pigeons/Rock Doves for 1000s of years. Flying Hawks looks great... but when the Hawk goes, the Pigeons return. It's not as if the Hawk waits in trees to ambush Pigeons (Or am I assuming incorrectly), the Hawk is just flown to spook the Pigeons. Nature only designed one Raptor with the ability to catch healthy Pigeons in flight, and that's the Peregrine; even the Peregrine needs to "stoop" to catch one.
Getting a Hawk in around the breeding season is the tactic to make them go elsewhere


As I posted earlier, the RSPCA are aware of the harm caused by netting, but I might add a picture to this thread each time a new Pigeon turns up hobbled/injured... maybe some of you could do the same? Maybe Gulls that have suffered a similar fate? You never know, it might make someone in authority take action, although I won't hold my breath.

Funnily enough I had my dinner in the park today. With this thread in mind I took notice of what was around. Sods law not one pigeon came to beg for food. But, there were gulls instead and I realised that I had never seen any gulls with the same injuries as the pigeons. This despite the fact that the gulls occupy the same space as the pigeons ? ? ?

 

[Nutcracker]

Funnily enough I had my dinner in the park today. With this thread in mind I took notice of what was around. Sods law not one pigeon came to beg for food. But, there were gulls instead and I realised that I had never seen any gulls with the same injuries as the pigeons. This despite the fact that the gulls occupy the same space as the pigeons ? ? ?

I've seen plenty of gulls with missing / injured feet - many more so than pigeons. In the case of gulls, not netting (I guess, not much used around here?), but getting feet trapped in rubbish while feeding on landfills. Feet trapped in tins, 6-pack wrappers, etc., etc., etc.