UK - Help Please - Have you seen one of these ? (1 Viewer)

[changer400]

OK, wrists slapped.

Chants to himself - "I must not post when I'm tired and grumpy, I must not post when I'm tired and grumpy"...

Right, I'm getting off this thread before I get into trouble...

Cheers for the compliment though James

Chants to himself " Bobtag must not post , Bobtag must not post"

I think that we have a serious case of "Email Speak" going on here Bobtag is a very good friend of mine and a very nice bloke to boot ! When I read his mails, as I know him personally , I can see the inflection that he is trying to make and the humour that is behind the post - other people ( Peregrine-Slater et al) seem not to have grasped this , which is a shame.

End result seems to be a thread of peed off people bringing nothing to the party other then "dont be mean to "birdwatchers"" ( and I use the term loosely here as i believe some that post to this forum are people who have seen a bird and want to know what it is but have no intention of ever owning a field guide and never will , these are people , like my mum, who watches birds on their bird table and wants to know what the exotic looking parrot that visits it ( it was a Goldfinch (!) ) and there is absolutely room for everyone on this Forum - it just needs to be catogorised as such - along the lines of What is this bird please - that way those who want to answer these sort of Muscovy duck questions can spend as much time as possible on there , those who are into the finer details of tertial patterns can look in the Advanced ID problems , as someone has quite rightly said, if there is a small amount of overlap , this can be moved very easily and quickly. To me its a no brainer , Bird ID has over 40 - 50 New threads A DAY , even on a slow day - someone also pointed out that you can open , discard and move on - but thats an hour of you time (!) What a waste , when you could be spending ( If thats your ball ! Baby ! ) 30 mins of that researching Rictal Bristles on Reed Warblers ! , I am not here to discriminate against learner birders , but to appeal to a splitting up of the forums, it SHOULD be a simple choice - when Mr A wants to know where to post his bird from local duck pond - he chooses ID:WHAT IS THIS BIRD PLEASE forum if Mr C who has been birding for 30 years, finds an odd Aytha on his local patch and gets some pics of the underwing and would like clarification of the subtle points between pochard and Tufted Duck integrades ! he posts in ADVANCED ID FORUM - if people cross post based on those titles then maybe their camera should be removed .........

Lets all enjoy this forum for what we want to get out of it ! and stop back biting

Si.

 

[tired_boy]

This thread ought to be closed.

I think its time now...

 

[changer400]

I think its time now...

For you to stop posting random rubbish ???

Hear hear

Si

 

[tired_boy]

For you to stop posting random rubbish ???

Hear hear

Si

You might love this thread but quite a bit of this last page has just been back-biting.

Why cant we have a new 'Debates' section and put this thread in there because we certainly arent identifying any birds are we and thats what the point of this section is - 'Bird' Identification Q & A.

 

[SueO]

Hay, I didn't actually say I was offended did I?

However, maybe your not familiar with Bernard Manning's sexist, racist, homophobic "humour"?? Or do you find that sort of thing funny?

I have no idea who Bernard Manning is and I don't plan to do research on him. I was merely pointing out what I saw as ironic.

 

[SueO]

Actually, you're wrong here.

chrisjones wasn't right, as the second bird is not a female Ruddy Duck (and, to be honest doesn't look like one), and I for one still don't believe the first is a pure Long-tailed Duck, and I know others agree. It would be great to have a bit more reasoned discussion on the latter bird, though, as it's like no LTD I've seen before.

I don't want to get into a slanging match, but please do check your facts before you wade in.

I don't want to fling anymore either. I'm sorry I posted anything at all. Really. I was rude and I'm sorry I got swept up in it. I apologize to all here.
Suzanne

 

[rosbifs]

Tired boy you want the post closed but you keep coming back for more?!? Sorry don't mean that as a personal attack this post gets funnier all the time and that is the attraction.

 

[BobTag]

I don't want to fling anymore either. I'm sorry I posted anything at all. Really. I was rude and I'm sorry I got swept up in it. I apologize to all here.
Suzanne

Apology accepted.

Whilst the humour throughout hasn't been to everyone's taste, there have been a number of constructive points raised, so let's hope they won't get lost in the recent unpleasantries.

However, as it doesn't seem like the thread will get split, let's all agree to posting nice, and get back the ID'ing birds, which is surely why we're all here?

Come on everyone, group hug... Ummmmm....

 

[changer400]

I don't want to fling anymore either. I'm sorry I posted anything at all. Really. I was rude and I'm sorry I got swept up in it. I apologize to all here.
Suzanne

Come on Suzanne, no need to apologise - he probably deserved it and his thick skin can more then handle your comments ( You have not even seen my comments yet )

Bird Forum is all about opinions, sometimes fact but mostly Opinions Thats what makes the internet a powerful , if slightly screwed medium

Cheers

Si.

 

[changer400]

However, as it doesn't seem like the thread will get split, let's all agree to posting nice, and get back the ID'ing birds, which is surely why we're all here?

OK I started the Post with the split in mind SO !

This is an open forum - not run by a dictatorship - I have a valid point and I want it heard, so in light of this

A) How do i go about getting this forum split
B) Who do i need to talk to to get this actioned
C) Do I have to become a Moderator to achieve A + B

Someone . somewhere had these initial Ideas - we are just expanding on them and making them work better.

Any help gratefully received

Cheers

Simon

 

[tired_boy]

Someone . somewhere had these initial Ideas - we are just expanding on them and making them work better.

But not everyone has agreed that your idea would help the forums to work better.

 

[changer400]

But not everyone has agreed that your idea would help the forums to work better.

When in real life do we ever let democracy come in the way of whether something is good or not !

Lets just say it wont make it any worse !!!

Looking at your previous postings TB , you have asked for help to ID Common Snipe, Black Headed Gull , Reed Bunting, Shoveler, Redshank and Dunnock amongst others - 22 Threads to be exact

The WHAT IS THIS BIRD Sub Forum is IDEAL for you - i.e someone who just wants to be told what a given species is , without having to do any investigation or field notes and refer to books ( or even speak to people onsite - especially at RSPB reserves )

So I cant see where your problem is with this - You are not one of the many 100's of people , Experts and Beginners alike who help people to ID common birds each and every day , this is not going away (!) I have just proposed to split it, so that A) important ID topics are not missed and B) People have choice as to what to look at and help with.

Simon

 

[halftwo]

I've not read the entire thread, so if this repeats: sorry.
When I went on one of my first ever ID threads I couldn't believe the bile & invective that came from it. It was awful. I, like others, offered a valid opinion & the strange thing was that some took those opinions to be personal attacks against their birding credentials. (When in fact these "credentials" speak for themselves by their owners' replies.)
A great majority come on to be helpful, in the nicest way possible. Unfortunately there are some who can't stand any view that doesn't come from a renowned "expert". (While every birder whose views I really value always are self-deprecating & pleasant. (Unless deliberately unpleasant for humour's sake!))
I think you're idea is essentially a good one Simon, but don't agree that it wastes time trolling through the "easy" IDs. There are ways of reducing time spent: eg. if you come to a thread that has pages already, it is likely to be a contentious ID & well worth reading; if on the other hand a single answer has plenty of views, its either been answered correctly already, or its impossible from a bad photo., etc.
I personally don't mind answering the "Its a Dunnock" type. If you do - simply move on. And also, of course, a "simple" ID from an unfamiliar country is not simple to foreigners, often; & I like to practice on new birds with those.
There are times in the written words when nuances of humour are lost & those whose first language is other than English whose meaning might be harder to reach, but this is a forum for all. I for one see your point, but ask: where would we draw the line?
Kind regards, (slight humour inflection, no sarcasm implied!)
Halftwo

 

[sideshow bob]

I have no idea who Bernard Manning is and I don't plan to do research on him. I was merely pointing out what I saw as ironic.

The late Bernard Manning was a "comedian" who was popular in the 70's and 80's, and whose act was based on being rude and obnoxious towards every colour, race, creed, sex, religious persuasion you can think of. He was a divisive figure, with his supporters hailing him as an anti-PC champion who was NOT prejudiced because he had a go at anybody, as long as it was funny. His detractors maintain he was merely a fat racist. I am one of the latter, but that's just an opinion.

I thought last week that this thread had died, but a bit of overheated banter and misconstrued sentiment seems to have revived it.

But frustratingly, there are STILL some people who have completely misunderstood the original point behind Simon's e-mail, a point which he has had to repeat several times now. Ignore his juvenile humour || and actually read what he's written!

 

[cavan wood]

When in real life do we ever let democracy come in the way of whether something is good or not !
Simon

Good point, but it's always nice if you can get it. Maybe, if the mods are in the undecided region of making a decision on this, then the question should be set up as a poll. This is what is done with photo contests, and someone even did it once with a feeder question (peanuts or sunflower I think it was).

Initially, I didn't think it should be split because it doesn't take a lot of insight to see which ones to skip if you're looking for a challenge. And, I like looking at the simple ones too, to assist the beginner to get started, and to help out a non-birding photographer. (Plus it helps my ego if I know I've got the ID correct.8-P)

But, with Simon's more recent posts, he has swayed me slightly to the dark side. With properly titled, separate forums, it would be simple for most to see where your post should go, particularly after you have done one or two. Certainly one result of this would be to keep novices or half-interested folks from being scared off by the "humour" of some of the more experienced folks.

Scott

 

[Grousemore]

In amongst all the bollocks, or badinage if a politer word is required, there seems to be an attempt to change the ID section of Birdforum. The term UK in the title will have excluded some from even reading the Thread.

This is a serious issue for those like myself who basically concentrate entirely on the ID type Threads and will take some adjusting too.

So why not start a new Thread? Ask the Mods/Admin for their views, let other BF members have their say and leave Bernard Manning and the silly squabbling for somewhere in 'Ruffled Feathers'

 

[rosbifs]

Changer for changer sake eh? How does someone who is posting a thread asking for help know whether a bird is common or not? As per Peregrinator before their postings were from a boat in countries where they didn't have a bird book and therefore had no idea whether a bird was special or not.

Furthermore as stated above you can pass over id threads - you are not obliged to help in every case. Do you want this site to become elitist? Threads for birders with more than 10 field guides, 300 species under their belt and 15 years seniority.......

 

[gerdwichers8]

Well, these long long texts just learn us what to do:

If things come running out of our noses: Just skip it!

 

[Jane Turner]

I still reckon hat the solution to Si's problem is better labelling. Posters with ID frontiers type birds should say so in the title. And if anyone picks up an unflagged one, then we can get a couple of stars put on it for the hard of scrolling time

 

[changer400]

BoBTaG Has just referenced this post again in another beginners thread - So I have done the decent thing and bought this to the top of the pile AGAIN

Please don't thank me , its not necessary

Si