Which Redpoll? (5 Viewers)

[Edward woodwood]

those pale redpolls are possibly a population of Arctics not just a population with an Arctic ancestry.

how can you 'rule out' exilipes based on three examples and remembering this is one photo of an individual redpoll in Canada.....

 

[Michael Frankis]

And opinion on the bill is clearly divided:

It sort of looks good structurally for Arctic/Hoary... that little retrousee bill....

This bird's bill (particularly the upper mandible) certainly looks 'pushed in' to me too, compared with Nightbirder's other photo

Michael

 

[Edward woodwood]

I think islandica actually refers to a DARK population that may be related to rostrata


....and the bill is fine too

 

[Jane Turner]

And opinion on the bill is clearly divided:


This bird's bill (particularly the upper mandible) certainly looks 'pushed in' to me too, compared with Nightbirder's other photo

Michael

Oi you..leave me out of this.. I'm comprehensively on the fence over this one

 

[Binocularface]

those pale redpolls are possibly a population of Arctics not just a population with an Arctic ancestry.

how can you 'rule out' exilipes based on three examples and remembering this is one photo of an individual redpoll in Canada.....

Tim,

Well I didn't say I had 'ruled out' exilipes I said "the feature I am suggesting probably rules out exilipes is the previously mentioned bill structure" I also said "Well bearing in mind I am basing my opinion on the three exilipes and fair number of flammea (including some resembling islandica) I am not sure my opinion would be very useful as all these birds have almost certainly originated from Europe and not North America."

I was merely giving my opinion based on my own experience, which as you have clearly pointed out is not very relevent!

Regards
Tristan

 

[Binocularface]

I think islandica actually refers to a DARK population that may be related to rostrata


....and the bill is fine too

According to (HELM) Finches & Sparrows- An Identification Guide (Clement P, Harris A & Davis J)

" C. f. islandica populations are intermediate in size between rostrata and flammea and contains both pale and dark birds closely resembling race hornemanni of Arctic and pure rostrata respectively....."

 

[Edward woodwood]

Hi Tristan

Please don't think I was saying your experience isn't relevant, I'm not one of your arsey experts, just that from anyones experience of three birds - even the best birder in the world - you can't conclude anything.....even a probability is stretching it a bit.....

I was just trying to be logical not rude!

 

[Edward woodwood]

...and Shirihai et al. (1996) says islandica are dark and may be part of rostrata, while the pale redpolls of iceland are perhaps a population of Arctic........

 

[Edward woodwood]

...and BWP shows islandica as dark too

 

[Jane Turner]

Tim..no one could accuse you of being an arsey expert...

 

[Edward woodwood]

no but I think it might be round the corner at the moment.......

 

[Binocularface]

Hi Tim

Yep Redpolls are a minefield :eek!:

Regards
Tristan