Worlds best roof prism versus the world's best porro prism binocular! (2 Viewers)

[Sancho]

Don't read it then. You know you will be up all night just wondering what is the best the EDG or the SE. Your just sour because you are an SV lover.

LOL! I'll be up all night (well some of it) reading 'David Copperfield'. I won't be wondering what the best binocular is, particularly among SE, SV and EDG, as I've owned the first two and have tested the third. Dennis, you're a nice bloke, but you need to get into bicycles. The bike forums get seriously Anal. (Don't Google that!)

 

[[email protected]]

LOL! I'll be up all night (well some of it) reading 'David Copperfield'. I won't be wondering what the best binocular is, particularly among SE, SV and EDG, as I've owned the first two and have tested the third. Dennis, you're a nice bloke, but you need to get into bicycles. The bike forums get seriously Anal. (Don't Google that!)

I am into bicycles. I have a carbon fiber Giant Defy Advanced 3 and I try to ride at least 20 miles every day when the weather is good.

 

[David Swain]

For the love of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster, they're only binoculars, and if they didn't exist, we'd just have to stand closer to stuff!o

Sancho, I've quoted you before, but this one might trump it!

David

 

[Sancho]

I am into bicycles. I have a carbon fiber Giant Defy Advanced 3 and I try to ride at least 20 miles every day when the weather is good.

Cool! I've a CF Canyon, but I'm not happy with the wheels, and may have to buy Dura Ace Mid Sections. This nonsense never ends till we all become Buddhists. I think the Giant Defy is a seriously good series of bikes. They're very popular here (and waterproof)!

Sancho, I've quoted you before, but this one might trump it!

David

Don't, because it's an unoriginal paraphrase of something from an old comic-book from the UK called 'Viz'!

 

[Torview]

I think Oscar Wilde summed up a Dennis review quite nicely :-

“Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.”

 

[brocknroller]

Oh come on Brock. Talk about a return fiend. You tried to return the 10x30 EII I sold you and they were perfect and brand new. Tryin to tell me the contrast was poor and then Henry(Mr Optics) said there was nothing wrong with them. I will bet you drive these optical websites crazy with your returning stuff all the time. They probably have your name on a blacklist. "Brockroller consistent returner"

Psychologists have a word for this, it's called "projection".

But for the record, I never said I saw anything wrong with the contrast with the 10x35 EII, quite the contrary, but when I first compared the 10x35 EII with the 8x30 EII and 8x32 SE at a park, I experienced eyestrain. When I went back and forth with the eights, I was okay, but when I brought the tens into the mix, the eyestrain recurred.

When that's happened in the past, it turned out that the bins were out of collimation, so I thought the 10x EII's might be slightly out of collimation, which is why I contacted you about them. Of course, that's no big deal since Nikon would fix that for $20 and return shipping, but I didn't think that I should be stuck with the cost.

However, the fact that the case didn't have a Nikon emblem on it plus your reputation for flipping bins like IHOP flips pancakes made me suspicious that these might be be refurbs or "gray market" and that perhaps Nikon wouldn't repair them.

Also, when I tested the generous sweet spot, I found that it was "off center," that is, the sweet spot was slightly down and to the right. I thought this might have something to do with the eyestrain. So I consulted Henry about this, and he said that his pair was the same.

I hadn't owned a 10x bin in quite a while and my focus accommodation worsened since having the 10x50 ED a few years back.

I didn't realize that I had to reset the right diopter for different distances unlike the 8x30 EII and the 8x32 SE. After more careful testing the more critical focus for a 10x bin turned out to be the cause of the eyestrain. It still happens if I'm out with the 10x EII and I forget to reset the diopter when I move from close to long distance.

This is less of an issue with the 10x42 SE but there too, I need to reset the diopter to attain the sharpest focus when moving from near to far or vise versa.

But I didn't return the EIIs, did I? The only bins I've returned to either a private seller or a store were grossly defective or were not up to snuff.

One store, two private owners. I've talked about those bins on the forums - the Audubon 804 ED that had been through the ringer, same deal with a "excellent condition" 9.5x44 ED that was falling apart.

For the store, it was two defective 20x60 Pentax PCF Vs (one out of collimation, one had a defective eyecup). The third was the WP version, which just wasn't up to snuff with the optics of the other two Vs. And that's it.

Every other bin I've bought was either later sold to buy another bin or because I needed the money. I don't use optics stores like the library the way you do.

<B>

 

[[email protected]]

Psychologists have a word for this, it's called "projection".

But for the record, I never said I saw anything wrong with the contrast with the 10x35 EII, quite the contrary, but when I first compared the 10x35 EII with the 8x30 EII and 8x32 SE at a park, I experienced eyestrain. When I went back and forth with the eights, I was okay, but when I brought the tens into the mix, the eyestrain recurred.

When that's happened in the past, it turned out that the bins were out of collimation, so I thought the 10x EII's might be slightly out of collimation, which is why I contacted you about them. Of course, that's no big deal since Nikon would fix that for $20 and return shipping, but I didn't think that I should be stuck with the cost.

However, the fact that the case didn't have a Nikon emblem on it plus your reputation for flipping bins like IHOP flips pancakes made me suspicious that these might be be refurbs or "gray market" and that perhaps Nikon wouldn't repair them.

Also, when I tested the generous sweet spot, I found that it was "off center," that is, the sweet spot was slightly down and to the right. I thought this might have something to do with the eyestrain. So I consulted Henry about this, and he said that his pair was the same.

I hadn't owned a 10x bin in quite a while and my focus accommodation worsened since having the 10x50 ED a few years back.

I didn't realize that I had to reset the right diopter for different distances unlike the 8x30 EII and the 8x32 SE. After more careful testing the more critical focus for a 10x bin turned out to be the cause of the eyestrain. It still happens if I'm out with the 10x EII and I forget to reset the diopter when I move from close to long distance.

This is less of an issue with the 10x42 SE but there too, I need to reset the diopter to attain the sharpest focus when moving from near to far or vise versa.

But I didn't return the EIIs, did I? The only bins I've returned to either a private seller or a store were grossly defective or were not up to snuff.

One store, two private owners. I've talked about those bins on the forums - the Audubon 804 ED that had been through the ringer, same deal with a "excellent condition" 9.5x44 ED that was falling apart.

For the store, it was two defective 20x60 Pentax PCF Vs (one out of collimation, one had a defective eyecup). The third was the WP version, which just wasn't up to snuff with the optics of the other two Vs. And that's it.

Every other bin I've bought was either later sold to buy another bin or because I needed the money. I don't use optics stores like the library the way you do.

<B>

Interesting having to reset the right diopter for different distances. I have never heard of that. Usually once the diopter is set it should accomadate at all distances. That doesn't make sense. What distance do you set the diopter at. It should be at about 100 yards and once adjusted shouldn't change over different distances.

 

[Torview]

Interesting having to reset the right diopter for different distances. I have never heard of that. Usually once the diopter is set it should accomadate at all distances. That doesn't make sense. What distance do you set the diopter at. It should be at about 100 yards and once adjusted shouldn't change over different distances.

I often have to change the diopter towards the end of a long days birding.

 

[brocknroller]

I often have to change the diopter towards the end of a long days birding.

Unfortunately, this is age-related, so in the future, you might have to change the diopter before the end of the day, but let's hope that day is still far off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accommodation_%28eye%29

The only 8x bin that I've had this issue with was the 8x32 LX. However, because of its fast focuser, there was no being fooled into thinking that the image was in focus like I was with the 10x EII. I was quite aware when both my eyes were not focused properly with the 8x32 LX.

This occurred most often in mid-range viewing. At infinity or at close focus, I could "set and forget" but at mid-range, I had to "hunt" for the best focus by toggling back and forth on the focuser until my target was in reasonable focus and then adjust the diopter.

I have difficulty using bins with fast focusers, especially midsized roofs because of their shallower perception of depth.

That's another reason why I prefer porros. Their better depth perception and 3-D effect gives my eyes/brain "clues" to where objects are supposed to be, which makes it easier to focus and more relaxing on my eyes.

<B>

 

[David Swain]

I feel the newer coatings on this SE are going to be a game changer on this dogfight. I expect them to outperform the older EII's by quite a margin

This begs a number of questions regarding "new" and "old" coatings. Did you note the reflective color of the EII's EP's and objectives? If you did not, you can't compare coatings with your coming SEs, and you should not assume that new SEs have necessarily newer coatings than your banished "black body" EIIs. For that matter, what are the reflective colors on your EDG's?

For the record, my new SEs (5508xx) reflect pale purple and pale green on the EPs, with pale purple on objectives and pale green on prisms. My EIIs (5001xx), very early "gray bodies," reflected bright green, with purple/pink highlights on both EPs and objectives. If I recall, the "green" coatings had been introduced on the last version of the 8x30E (the Criterium version) and the early 10x42SEs in the mid-90s.

It might be worthwhile for people to record serial number and reflective color for EIIs, SEs, and EDGs, if for no other reason than to help Dennis make his review useful.

David

 

[Kammerdiner]

Psychologists have a word for this, it's called "projection".

...

<B>

"Projection" is a little passe, too Freudian. Dennis has, near as I can tell, Narcissistic Personality Disorder (aka NPD). He's just goofing on you. You're just falling for it.

 

[[email protected]]

This begs a number of questions regarding "new" and "old" coatings. Did you note the reflective color of the EII's EP's and objectives? If you did not, you can't compare coatings with your coming SEs, and you should not assume that new SEs have necessarily newer coatings than your banished "black body" EIIs. For that matter, what are the reflective colors on your EDG's?

For the record, my new SEs (5508xx) reflect pale purple and pale green on the EPs, with pale purple on objectives and pale green on prisms. My EIIs (5001xx), very early "gray bodies," reflected bright green, with purple/pink highlights on both EPs and objectives. If I recall, the "green" coatings had been introduced on the last version of the 8x30E (the Criterium version) and the early 10x42SEs in the mid-90s.

It might be worthwhile for people to record serial number and reflective color for EIIs, SEs, and EDGs, if for no other reason than to help Dennis make his review useful.

David

My EDG II's are new so I think we can assume they would have newer more updated coatings than the EII's I had which I am sure were older by the looks of the case. The SE's I am getting from Adorama just came in from NIkon on a new shipment so it is safe to say they are the latest coatings. The only SE's available now are when Nikon decides to ship some to the dealers. They would have to be the latest coatings. I will note the sn# though when I get them. I am sure they will be newer than yours. I am sure the EII's have been out of production longer than the SE's so the SE's would have to have newer coatings.

 

[Torview]

Dennis, according to your Bible, Allbino`s, these are`nt the respective World`s best, so you`ve stumbled at the first hurdle.

Their top ranking 32mm roof is the FL, no test on a 32mm EDG yet.

Top ranking Porro is the 42mm SE, in which case you should use a 42mm EDG.

I mean, I`m as excited as everyone else to read the EDG is again victorious, but we must have confidence you are comparing the confirmed "Worlds best".

 

[David Swain]

I am sure they will be newer than yours.

Really, Dennis? This is a third-grade playground bragging match?

For what it is worth, my SEs came directly from Nikon Service last week. Nikon does not change coatings every week. As you should know by now, serial number alone doesn't tell us much except for the rough generation of a given sample, but if you are going to make assertions about the superiority of coatings based on newness, at least observe what you can about those coatings rather than deriving your observations from your apparent need to be the best.

Carry on.

David

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis, according to your Bible, Allbino`s, these are`nt the respective World`s best, so you`ve stumbled at the first hurdle.

Their top ranking 32mm roof is the FL, no test on a 32mm EDG yet.

Top ranking Porro is the 42mm SE, in which case you should use a 42mm EDG.

I mean, I`m as excited as everyone else to read the EDG is again victorious, but we must have confidence you are comparing the confirmed "Worlds best".

The 42mm EDG is number one on Allbino's so if they tested the 32mm EDG you know that it would be number one also. It's logical. Same optical formula,same glass etc. It beat the SV in the 42mm so it probably would in the 32mm. Let's be honest. And also it's my opinion that's it's the world's best which counts more anyway.

 

[[email protected]]

Really, Dennis? This is a third-grade playground bragging match?

For what it is worth, my SEs came directly from Nikon Service last week. Nikon does not change coatings every week. As you should know by now, serial number alone doesn't tell us much except for the rough generation of a given sample, but if you are going to make assertions about the superiority of coatings based on newness, at least observe what you can about those coatings rather than deriving your observations from your apparent need to be the best.

Carry on.

David

Your binoculars came from Nikon SERVICE or you just bought them? Big difference. I will list the SN when I get them and we can answer who's is newest. If yours are that new the coatings are probably the same but they could be different. Yours are 550xxx so that is the newer ecoglass.

 

[Simon S]

Denis we know how great your pushing your bloody EDG on every thread on this site.
This thread is for PORRO binoculars, not the two bog roll types you keep pushing!

 

[[email protected]]

Denis we know how great your pushing your bloody EDG on every thread on this site.
This thread is for PORRO binoculars, not the two bog roll types you keep pushing!

Sorry, you are confused. This thread is about an upcomng battle between the EDG and the SE. Best roof in the wolrd versus the best porro. A porro and a roof getting down and dirty and when the dust settles who will emerge the victor. More to come.

 

[vkalia]

Dennis, you're a nice bloke, but you need to get into bicycles. The bike forums get seriously Anal. (Don't Google that!)

I think the bicycle forums would eat him alive! Birdforum is very gentle, by comparison

Speaking of which: are you on Bikeforums or Slowtwitch, Sancho?

Edit: Giant Defy and Canyon, eh? Nice bikes, both. I have a Ridley Damocles, a Lynskey Sportive and a couple of others, but am thinking of treating myself to either a Cervelo S5 or a Specialized Venge in a few months when I turn 40, with the new SRAM Red (electronic shifting is the work of the devil!!!). Already have the wheels waiting for it - HED Stinger 6 tubs.

(Apologies to the rest of the group, but I figure bike geekery might be a step towards the better, given where this thread is going)

 

[jaymoynihan]

I think the bicycle forums would eat him alive! Birdforum is very gentle, by comparison ...

The photography (aka cameras) forums, with perhaps DPReview being the most notable, also make this equipment subforum tame. DPR is frequented by many fanboys, with fangs.:eek!: