Would you buy a top shelf alpha Swaro, Zeiss, Leica or Nikon "MADE IN CHINA?" (6 Viewers)

[John S.]

I've been reading these posts today, and I have not seen this important
thing mentioned.

China is a socialist communist country, the govt. controls everything.
They do not have any independent companies that mfr. and sell products around the world.

Other countries such as Japan, US, and most of the rest of the world, have free enterprise,
capitalism, and so each company is free to do things as they please.

As mentioned above, tell me about a China company that sells products
under its own name worldwide ?

Jerry

Lots of 'em. Lenovo to begin with. But saying that the Chinese aren't going to continue buying companies around the world because theirs is a communist economy is...wishful thinking. Their economy is opening up gradually and it would be in our interest to continue to recognize that the chinese are going to continue to expand their presence.

Leica or one of the other optical companies could very well end up being sold to a Chinese firm if the price us right and the buyers have the interest. The Volvo sale is not exactly new news.

Parts of this thread are beginning to read like the xenophobic nonsense directed at the Japanese manufacturers in the late 1940's and 1950's. We all know what happened to some complacent industries.

 

[Holger Merlitz]

I've been reading these posts today, and I have not seen this important
thing mentioned.

China is a socialist communist country, the govt. controls everything.
They do not have any independent companies that mfr. and sell products around the world.

Other countries such as Japan, US, and most of the rest of the world, have free enterprise,
capitalism, and so each company is free to do things as they please.

As mentioned above, tell me about a China company that sells products
under its own name worldwide ?

Jerry

Or Huawei - the "largest telecommunications equipment maker in the world, having overtaken Ericsson in 2012" (citation from Wikipedia).

Or Alibaba - a "shopping search engine and data-centric cloud computing services. In 2012, two of Alibaba’s portals together handled 1.1 trillion yuan ($170 billion) in sales, more than competitors eBay and Amazon.com combined" (again from Wikipedia)

China already rules the world

Cheers,
Holger

 

[peatmoss]

A lot seems to be made of the fact that Chinese firms nowadays operate as nameless OEMs and that somehow this would act as a bar to their gaining prominence worldwide. But their situation isn't much different from Japan's situation after WWII. If one looks back at the old JTII roster, there were over 200 Japanese firms entitled to export their optical products. Yet how many became worldwide brands in their own right? How many even tried? Many were content to remain as OEMs, having their products marketed and sold by companies like Sears, Swift, Bushnell, etc. Making the leap from OEM to consumer brand is a big step. Foreign sounding names might have to be simplified (Nippon Kogaku became Nikon, Kyanon became Canon). You need to find local representation. It's easy to forget that companies like Nikon and Canon spent years being represented in the US by independent distributors before they bothered establishing their own US subsidiaries to handle import and distribution.

Nowadays, if you've got the capital, it's probably much easier to buy an established brand that's cash strapped. So now you've got your distribution and your personnel. But do you still have the goodwill of the brand's name? That's the risk of going after a high end target like Leica. An important part of the brand's standing in the marketplace is tied to prestige, and prestige is a fragile commodity. Plenty of naysayers would be waiting for the other shoe to drop... an eyecup that falls off.... a focuser that's scratchy. Essentially, any Chinese firm that bought one of the alpha brands would have to "do it better" than the other alphas just to reassure its customers, and that's a tough task in a market segment where consumers already expect an "ultimate" product.

 

[winwinbino]

Is China a socialist communist country ? Surely yes. The govt. controls everything ? Mostly yes.
But, not all enterpriese are state-owned. They are not North Korea. There are many huge organizations are private.
China opened their curtain, though not completely, only 15-20 years ago and tried to link with the outside world. The people's life is much better now.

As long as I know, many buyers going all over the world to find the cheaper than dirt products for importation to USA. They rather lower the standard instead of increasing 1 cent for the supplier. Of course China can produce very high quality goods provided someone willing to pay an appropriated price.

No country is an utopia. Even America has so many internal problem. Human rights ? They have enough. Exporting meat containing clenbuterol ? Many countries are suffering & forced to accept.

Even Thailand now is having a coup, but frankly, it is welcomed by most Thai since this is the best way out for the situation. Reading few lines from CNN or listening to some politicians emotional speeches don't mean you understand the matter thoroughly.

 

[perterra]

Is China a socialist communist country ? Surely yes. The govt. controls everything ? Mostly yes.
But, not all enterpriese are state-owned. They are not North Korea. There are many huge organizations are private.
China opened their curtain, though not completely, only 15-20 years ago and tried to link with the outside world. The people's life is much better now.

As long as I know, many buyers going all over the world to find the cheaper than dirt products for importation to USA. They rather lower the standard instead of increasing 1 cent for the supplier. Of course China can produce very high quality goods provided someone willing to pay an appropriated price.

No country is an utopia. Even America has so many internal problem. Human rights ? They have enough. Exporting meat containing clenbuterol ? Many countries are suffering & forced to accept.

Even Thailand now is having a coup, but frankly, it is welcomed by most Thai since this is the best way out for the situation. Reading few lines from CNN or listening to some politicians emotional speeches don't mean you understand the matter thoroughly.

Thats the unchecked capitalism is as dangerous as communism part.

 

[ceasar]

"The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists."
Willi Schlamm

 

[Troubador]

And the worst form of government is a parliamentary democracy, apart from all the other forms of government. Quote, Winston Churchill.

Lee

 

[winwinbino]

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/photos/by...-to-close-texas-factory-1401672179-slideshow/

 

[Sancho]

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/photos/by...-to-close-texas-factory-1401672179-slideshow/

That reminds me- first time I ever saw a mobile phone was 21 years ago in China. A bloke in a restaurant was using one, looked like a Walkie-talkie. My then fiancée (now OH) suggested I get one. I said it was a pointless device that would never catch on- in Europe, see, we have a phone at home, and one at work, so you don't need one in your briefcase. Like the Bob Monkhouse line; "When I was young, I said I was going to be a comedian, and everyone laughed. They're not laughing now!"

 

[Kammerdiner]

Thats the unchecked capitalism is as dangerous as communism part.

Yup, I do believe perterra has seen how things really work. :t:

Fascinating thread, most of which I missed while off the grid.

China has been like America in the second half of the 19th century. Unbridled, rampant, cutthroat. Thankfully, China is moving through history at breakneck speed. Populism has already commenced. Environmental concerns are surfacing. The unredeemable damage is done of course, but it was the same here in the states, and elsewhere. Here in the states we are going backwards trying to catch up.

I knew a guy who was at Tiananman Square in 1989 (25 years ago tommorrow!), and I told him in 1994 that China would be the next economic superpower. He said no, no, he didn't think the Chinese had it in them. And he was Chinese by the way.

I should have gone straight to China and made my millions.

Mark

 

[winwinbino]

That reminds me- first time I ever saw a mobile phone was 21 years ago in China. A bloke in a restaurant was using one, looked like a Walkie-talkie. My then fiancée (now OH) suggested I get one. I said it was a pointless device that would never catch on- in Europe, see, we have a phone at home, and one at work, so you don't need one in your briefcase. Like the Bob Monkhouse line; "When I was young, I said I was going to be a comedian, and everyone laughed. They're not laughing now!"

He already was. Making people laugh at his younger days.

 

[chris butterworth]

Dunno what all the fuss is about. If the Chinese do buy Zeiss / Swarovski / Zen-Ray ( just to counter the Leicaphobes perennial carpet chewing ) they'll only be manufactured for a few years in China before production is moved to Mozambique, Angola or the 'North Atlantic Rim'. They are rapidly achieving the level of financial clout that will allow them to dictate whatever they wish and, if they can make good profits from manufacturing alpha bins in Chad, Bangladesh Buckinghamshire or Wyoming, they will.

 

[ceasar]

Yup, I do believe perterra has seen how things really work. :t:

Fascinating thread, most of which I missed while off the grid.

China has been like America in the second half of the 19th century. Unbridled, rampant, cutthroat. Thankfully, China is moving through history at breakneck speed. Populism has already commenced. Environmental concerns are surfacing. The unredeemable damage is done of course, but it was the same here in the states, and elsewhere. Here in the states we are going backwards trying to catch up.

I knew a guy who was at Tiananman Square in 1989 (25 years ago tommorrow!), and I told him in 1994 that China would be the next economic superpower. He said no, no, he didn't think the Chinese had it in them. And he was Chinese by the way.

I should have gone straight to China and made my millions.

Mark

Democracy, populism and nationalism are forces of history which are still being played out in China and everywhere else. It doesn't matter how "fast you move through them" in time. They will always be there and will have to be reckoned with.

Have you read John Lukacs's historical essays in his recently published "DEMOCRACY AND POPULISM Fear and Hatred." 2005 Yale University Press.


Bob

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

Given what I've seen, in the stores and laid out on the table
with hot lights and cold steel....

I think the "Chinese glass, western assembly" scheme makes the most QC sense. ...for now.

 

[SteveTS]

recently published ... 2005

How time flies :t:

 

[ceasar]

How time flies :t:

In historical terms that is very recent.