Have Nikon given up competing with the big three? (4 Viewers)

[KorHaan]

Hi mak,

No... that would be too simple. We all know that price does not equal performance.
But, it is a good starting point. The market determines the price (eventually). Can't make money on a bin that doesn't sell!

What I'm saying is that Nikon knows it will sell the EDG series all day long at $1299 to $1499 USD. You might even see a slight drop in LXL price to $699 to $1199.
For the Nikon line this makes sense.

Nikon knows they won't sell many bins at $1900 + USD. Initially (while the bins are not available), they will price very high to send a message to the market that says "we have the best possible bin bar none" This will get a lot of attention from consumers (see... already has) and they very well might have the best bin series in the world. But in reality, Nikon already knows they will sell just BELOW the S/Z/L top price. This gives the traditional Nikon buyer (practical, non emotional, price performance buyer) something to go for.

There are so many things that make the best brands "the best".

Lexus or BMW? All things being the same... price, performance, etc. Lexus will be technically correct but, BMW will have that intangible quality that makes you really want it. Maybe it's really small details but BMW will make you feel like they know what you want... know who you are. But... if you're not so wrapped up in a brand you can be more open to performance and you buy the Nikon... er...Lexus.

I drive a Subaru... so what do I know! But, Subaru knows their market and knows exactly what they want... and makes it for them!

Nikon knows who they are selling to. But really... this is the smallest part of the bin market (in sales numbers). To be 1st for Nikon it helps to move the Mid and lower range (like they really need to?)

Check this post in Late November 2008. See if I'm close.

Cheers

Nikon's strategy in the Netherlands is enigmatic; the HG's are very hard to find whereas the midpriced and cheap models are far more widespread throughout optics shops. Even in a big store that stocked all (!) models of Z/L/S the Nikon HG's ( LX L's ) were noticeably lacking. Jan Meijerink's reviews of top-end models do not include Nikons, simply because they're not available.
So I think you're right especially on the last part of your post. Mid and lower range seem to be far more important for them.

Greetings, Ronald

Greetings, Ronald

 

[ThoLa]

Nikon's strategy in the Netherlands is enigmatic; the HG's are very hard to find whereas the midpriced and cheap models are far more widespread throughout optics shops.

Greetings, Ronald

Hi Ronald!

Here in Germany the situation is very similar (with respect to Nikon, but other companies, too). But is it the manufacturers who do not distribute their products (bad economy, isn't it), or is it the shops/dealers who don't order them to put them on exhibition ?

Anyway, as a customer I just stick to what's available.
Thomas

 

[oleaf]

Nikon's strategy in the Netherlands is enigmatic; the HG's are very hard to find whereas the midpriced and cheap models are far more widespread throughout optics shops. Even in a big store that stocked all (!) models of Z/L/S the Nikon HG's ( LX L's ) were noticeably lacking. Jan Meijerink's reviews of top-end models do not include Nikons, simply because they're not available.
So I think you're right especially on the last part of your post. Mid and lower range seem to be far more important for them.

Greetings, Ronald

Greetings, Ronald

Hi Ronald,

I'm sure the Netherlands is not a big market for Nikon. The top end is most likely filled with birders who pick a bino for 10 to 15 years and are happy with their Trinovid, EL, or FL models (for good reasons like sales support, customer support and proximity to distribution). No room for LXL's (or need) Maybe I'm wrong?

Cheers

 

[mooreorless]

Anyway, as a customer I just stick to what's available.
Thomas

Hi Thomas, As you see it works, if the shops have nothing but S/Z/L .This is very good for S/Z/L.
Regards,Steve

 

[FrankD]

Bob,

Sorry for not replying sooner. I actually did but my home computer froze up as I was posting it. I cannot access this site at work and this is the first chance I have had to post at home in the last week.

Archery season was exciting but not entirely successful. Hawkwatching at the Knob was a blast in September. We really should try to get together again at some point.

As for the new EDGs, I am eager to get a pair. I have been told by one popular New York retailer that the anticipated release date will be May. Just think of all the internet discussions that will occur about them between now and then. I had initially been leaning towards ordering a pair of the 7x42s as I love the increased depth of field and overall more relaxed view through them. However, after having seen that the apparent field of view is only going to be 56 degrees I am reconsidering. I may have to opt for the 8x42s instead.

Think about it though, if these bins have the Nikon LX wide sweet spot coupled with a wider field of view (compared to the LXLs) and that beautifully crisp FL/ED image then I can see why they would initially price them at or above most of their European competitors.

I cannot wait to get a pair up to my eyes.

 

[KorHaan]

Hi Ronald!

Here in Germany the situation is very similar (with respect to Nikon, but other companies, too). But is it the manufacturers who do not distribute their products (bad economy, isn't it), or is it the shops/dealers who don't order them to put them on exhibition ?

Anyway, as a customer I just stick to what's available.
Thomas

Hi THomas,

It seems to be coming from Nikon Japan, as I understand from Jan Meijerink's explanation on his website ( august 2006 ) why he has not been able to test Nikon high-end products.
In 2002 Nikon Europe asked JM to do tests of their high-end bins and scopes; JM turned to the Dutch importer Inca with this wish but was told there were only single specimens available and not a whole series of models ( which JM required for proper testing ). Despite several requests of JM and Nikon Europe during the next years, the Dutch importer could not make a complete series available for testing. The reason being given was that most specimens went to the UK because this was a far more important market for Nikon.
JM finds it incomprehensible that the Dutch Nikon importer seems to have no interest in promoting Nikon products. In his contacts with foreign binoculars testers they are full of praise of the Nikon equipment.
JM finally writes that in 2002 the Nikon retail prices were so high that it was impossible to compete with the other top brands, so this might have been a reason as well.

I think the Netherlands are not considered an important selling area for the top-end models, therefore the Dutch importer only receives lower and mid range models from Nikon Japan.
Same situation occurs in Germany IMO.

Greetings, Ronald

 

[KorHaan]

Hi Ronald,

I'm sure the Netherlands is not a big market for Nikon. The top end is most likely filled with birders who pick a bino for 10 to 15 years and are happy with their Trinovid, EL, or FL models (for good reasons like sales support, customer support and proximity to distribution). No room for LXL's (or need) Maybe I'm wrong?

Cheers

Hi Oleaf,

No, you're not wrong! Au contraire, I might add, you're spot on!
S/L/Z are the most widely sold high-end bins here for the reasons you suggest. But I'm sure that if Nikon would change their policy more LX L's would be seen in the field! That would be a good thing!

Greetings, Ronald

 

[ThoLa]

Hi Oleaf,

No, you're not wrong! Au contraire, I might add, you're spot on!
S/L/Z are the most widely sold high-end bins here for the reasons you suggest. But I'm sure that if Nikon would change their policy more LX L's would be seen in the field! That would be a good thing!

Greetings, Ronald

All fine and well, and most of it probably right.
But things might not be that simple after all.
First, LZS may be just a little bit better (?).
Second, many smaller shops, which prevail in this part of the world, may find it impossible to stock everything or are under pressure to sign contracts which limits the scope of the products they are allowed to present.

economy is a strange world to most bird watchers, isn't it?

not an economista in any way-a,
Thomas

 

[oleaf]

Hi Thomas,

The problem is simple... but a hard one to solve.

S/Z/L have companies and staff that are close to the Netherlands. So, they have customer and sales support very close by (a warrantee issue is sent a few hundred km vs a few thousand). Nikon, on the other hand, will rely on a partner or distributor to provide customer support and sales support (is there a Nikon Europe? If so, then their sales partner is weak) . This is never as good as support provided by the actual company.

But... S/Z/L brands might just be too strong in this market.

Do you think S/Z/L has great support in Japan, or other Asian countries? Maybe they face the same issues as Nikon does in NL?

Cheers

 

[ThoLa]

Do you think S/Z/L has great support in Japan, or other Asian countries? Maybe they face the same issues as Nikon does in NL?

Cheers

Hi Oleaf!

I have no idea.
To be shockingly honest, I do not really care.
They are big companies; they ought to solve their problems themselves.
They can hire me, if they want to.

Pentax, which I know well from photography, suffers from the same problem. The website features tons of (presumably) interesting, affordable binoculars. Problem: Within 150 km of my place of residence no dealer that I know of has got any!
Their european headquarters have been in Hamburg for decades.
So being on the spot and knowing the market cannot be the issue.

I am inclined to think for these companies binos are simply no significant business in comparison to other fields such as digital cameras (available everywhere, Pentax's as well as Nikon's).
Neither Swarovski nor Zeiss are in the market for them; so the motivation might be quite different.

Rationale: You buy a high quality pair of binoculars, you'll be happy for a decade (before technical progress tickles you again). With this year's digicam you'll be a fossil in 2010 the latest!

Maybe that is part of the explanation (maybe not),
Tom

 

[Swissboy]

....Rationale: You buy a high quality pair of binoculars, you'll be happy for a decade (before technical progress tickles you again). With this year's digicam you'll be a fossil in 2010 the latest!

Maybe part of the explanation (maybe not),
Tom

I think you are quite right.

 

[ceasar]

It depends on which decades you are talking about. The improvement in binoculars (esp. Roof Prisms) from the 80's through the 90's to the present has been nothing less than remarkable. I have serious doubts that the coming decade will show that kind of progression in visual quality but I have no doubt that the increased costs related to the new improvements won't reflect that slower progression! Hang on to your wallets!
Cordially,
Bob

 

[oleaf]

Since this is from a retailer... it could be true.

http://www.binocularblog.com/archive/2008_01_30_archive.html

If true, then the EDG will fall right at or below the S,Z,L brands. We'll see.

Maybe some deals to be had on LXL's soon

Cheers

 

[Pinewood]

It depends on which decades you are talking about. The improvement in binoculars (esp. Roof Prisms) from the 80's through the 90's to the present has been nothing less than remarkable. I have serious doubts that the coming decade will show that kind of progression in visual quality but I have no doubt that the increased costs related to the new improvements won't reflect that slower progression! Hang on to your wallets!
Cordially,
Bob

Bob,

Let me add what I think that these are the exceptional improvements, since 1980:
Circa 1980, multicoating, which has seen improvements since their initial use
Circa 1988, phase coating
1990's ED, then FL glass
Circa 2004, dielectic coating

A roof prism from before phase coating was an optically inferior instrument but now they may be at the forefront of binocular technology. The only problem is that phase coating and dielectric coatings add to the cost compared with Porro binoculars.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

would it be wise to get the LXL 8x42 now or wait for the new EDG bino ? any news when would nikon release the new EDG ? thanks !

 

[Kumlieni]

New EDG Binoculars

would it be wise to get the LXL 8x42 now or wait for the new EDG bino ? any news when would nikon release the new EDG ? thanks !

Disclosure: I work for Nikon

horukuru- that is, of course, a subjective and personal decision. I am writing this with my very own pre-production 7x42 EDG glued to fingers, which makes typing a bit challenging but I can't make myself put them down! After using them for a week at the Space Coast Birding Festival in FL and showing them off at the wild and woolly SHOT Show just recently, I have to admit that I am in love with them!
They are improved over the LXL in just about every category. I am particularly pleased that many of the changes were specifically aimed at birders. Much improved depth of field is the most critical change in my opinion, but increased field of view, and the addition of a 7x42 to the line are also birder driven changes. I won't go into greater detail here except to say that they absolutely smoke! Production 42mm models are scheduled to hit the US in April with 32mm available in June.
For a close look at the EDG check out:
http://www.nikoncuttingedg.com
Check back in the next couple of weeks for more details.

As for the LXL, I love my 8x42 LXL as well, and they are clearly feeling abandoned. I don't think that are a large number of LXLs out there to be had, but those on the market should be a great deal. I know that one shop, One Good Tern, is clearing out their LXLs at cost, but I expect others will be as well. Either way, enjoy them!

Cameron Cox
Nikon Birding Specialist

 

[NoSpringChicken]

As for the LXL, I love my 8x42 LXL as well, and they are clearly feeling abandoned. I don't think that are a large number of LXLs out there to be had, but those on the market should be a great deal. I know that one shop, One Good Tern, is clearing out their LXLs at cost, but I expect others will be as well.

Do I assume from this comment that the EDG will replace the LXL (HGL) rather than being an additional product? If so I look forward to some discounted 8x32 HGLs, although I don't know when the EDGs will be on sale in the UK.

Edit. In my (extremely limited) experience the HGL has the nicest, smoothest focusing of any binocular I have tried so far.

Ron

 

[lucznik]

Kumlieni,

I'm curious about the decision to discontinue the LXL as it seems very short-sited to me. The Edg is priced so high that there is little chance I will be able (or willing) to afford one anytime soon - no matter how wonderful it is. I can't imagine I am alone in this situation. I'm sure there are many who want a really high quality binocular but who simply cannot justify the premium price tag commanded by the so-called "Alpha" binoculars.

Why would Nikon remove their only viable entry in the ~$1000-$1300 market segment? In doing so you've basically gauranteed that all the money spent in that market is going to go toward the purchase of Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, Minox, Meopta, Vortex, Kahles, Cabela's, etc., none of which helps Nikon at all. I can't imagine keeping the LXL around would have much (if any) affect on Edg sales.

I don't want a $300 Monarch as I consider them very "entry-level" and I already have such binoculars. I want something better. What then does Nikon have to offer?

 

[Kumlieni]

Do I assume from this comment that the EDG will replace the LXL (HGL) rather than being an additional product? If so I look forward to some discounted 8x32 HGLs, although I don't know when the EDGs will be on sale in the UK.


Yes, EDG will replace the LXL/HGL (EDG will be called EDG everywhere it is sold to cut down on confusion) except for the 8x20 and 10x25 LXLs which will continue to be Nikon's high end compacts.

 

[trealawboy]

Hello Cameron

Thanks for the details. Will the eyecups be better than those on the HGs which are prone to show excessive wear? Do the EDGs also share the same water-repellent features to body and glass now seen among other leading brands, e.g. LotuTec from Zeiss, Easy to Clean from Swarovski and AquaDura from Leica?

Thanks