Swift historians (2 Viewers)

[elkcub]

I'd appreciate if you'd let me know of any Swift "Supreme" 10x50 or 8x40 that show up beyond your price range. if I were in the UK I'd be looking for SWPA bins dated in the mid-80s. (Swift-Pyser Wide Angle) These look to be quite comparable to the Audubon of th era. They came in 9x42, 10x42, and 8x36 configurations. The 9x has a 8 deg fov = 72 deg AFOV.

Blue skies,
Ed

 

[bosun]

My most recent aquisition, the 8x42 Saratogas referred to above were SPWA Serial No 902841 FOV 435ft at 1000yds. They also carry the mark J-B56 and the swift blue spot. I paid £45 including postage (about $90 US).

 

[Simon S]

Well I think my MKII Saratoga's are still slightly sharper than the originals. They do give a cooler image although a friend bought a pair from ebay and there colour rendition in neutral?

 

[elkcub]

Well I think my MKII Saratoga's are still slightly sharper than the originals. They do give a cooler image although a friend bought a pair from ebay and there colour rendition in neutral?

Some perceived sharpness is due to coating improvements, I think, certainly differences in general color rendition. The original Swifts used "amber" coatings, with little else, which might account for the warmer tones. I adapt to color tone very quickly, and hardly even notice the strong yellow-green in Russian BPOs after a while.

Ed

 

[Simon S]

Just to finish this topic off nicely, I did some comparisons between the MKII Saratoga's and my MKII Audubon's.
In bright daylight The Audubon is slightly brighter that the Saratoga, and relays better colour fidelity. On high contrast images such as twigs and branches of trees against the sky, the Audubon is prone to some CA, where the Saratoga is completely clear of this defect.
Then I turned the test towards picking out objects deep in the depth of a tree of hedge where the light is not so good. This time the clear winner is the Audubon with much more detail seen in the gloom.
Night viewing is again clearly cut. The Saratoga,s performance is OK I suppose, but the Audubon is very good. Considering these binoculars use the same coatings, the only difference is one pair are a 8x40 and the others 8.5x44, which in my mind would have a similar amount of light transmission. The CA seen in the Audubon is no doubt caused by the BaK4 prism as is the brighter image in low light levels.
The Saratoga MK1 and MKII are great binoculars and still among my favorites.

 

[elkcub]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the pictures and evaluation. After having my 804R (c. 1986) cleaned by Nicolas Crista, I'm now much more aware of how a thin layer of dust can degrade the image. Apparently, there is a tendency for the cement used in the older Swift bins to powder over time. This might be worth checking out.

Regards,
Ed

 

[Simon S]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the pictures and evaluation. After having my 804R (c. 1986) cleaned by Nicolas Crista, I'm now much more aware of how a thin layer of dust can degrade the image. Apparently, there is a tendency for the cement used in the older Swift bins to powder over time. This might be worth checking out.

Regards,
Ed

Thanks for that elkcub. I strip all my binoculars down if there is a hint of dust on the prisms or lenses. The difference is amazing after a clean. It's the collimation that takes the time afterwards though.

 

[elkcub]

Very interesting observation. I have a Swift Neptune Mk I 7 x 35 and in my opinion it is noticeable sharper and crisper than any other Swift binocular I have used, including the same configuration Neptune Mk II and the next to latest model 8.5 x 44 Audubon. I wonder whether Elkcub would agree?

Tom,

I just acquired a mint Swift 7x35 Neptune MK II, dated 1988. Beautiful optic with fully coated lenses. Neptune models may have pre-dated the Audubons starting in the late 1950s, and there are at least three later models that I can find. But they are all MK II. Are you sure yours is MK I, and what date is it? (First two digits of s/n.)

Regards,
Ed

 

[chartwell99]

Tom,

I just acquired a mint Swift 7x35 Neptune MK II, dated 1988. Beautiful optic with fully coated lenses. Neptune models may have pre-dated the Audubons starting in the late 1950s, and there are at least three later models that I can find. But they are all MK II. Are you sure yours is MK I, and what date is it? (First two digits of s/n.)

Regards,
Ed

You're right, by gum - mine is also a Mark II although it is quite different from the late 80's grey gutta percha model Mark II I sold some years ago. This one - Serial No. 27**** - is designated Model 802 (a model number which probably remained unchanged) black gutta percha, marked "Coated Optics Feather Weight" and is the Bausch & Lomb Zephyr B & L only dreamed of making. Prisms are BAK4 and eyecups and diopter markings are a shameless copy of the best of the B & L Rochester production. I bought mine from John Cota and I still marvel at why he sold it - stunningly sharp and a reminder of just how nice the once standard 7 x 35's can truly be.

 

[elkcub]

You're right, by gum - mine is also a Mark II although it is quite different from the late 80's grey gutta percha model Mark II I sold some years ago. This one - Serial No. 27**** - is designated Model 802 (a model number which probably remained unchanged) black gutta percha, marked "Coated Optics Feather Weight" and is the Bausch & Lomb Zephyr B & L only dreamed of making. Prisms are BAK4 and eyecups and diopter markings are a shameless copy of the best of the B & L Rochester production. I bought mine from John Cota and I still marvel at why he sold it - stunningly sharp and a reminder of just how nice the once standard 7 x 35's can truly be.

Nice hearing from you. I got interested in the Neptune models after finding the attached Swift brochure from 1958. An Audubon is not on the cover, but rather a Model 802 Neptune. Does it look like yours? I believe it was made by Tamron, but they were not conveniently dated like the subsequent Hiyoshi Kogaku models.. In 1965 and 1968 two additional 802 models appeared, also by Tamron, but I have no indication of gutta percha being used. The 1965 model is quite beautiful, and made for attachment to cameras. Is this the one you own? Lucky fellow if it is.

My 1988 Neptune 802 is marvelous. It's almost a scaled down miniature of the Type 2 Audubon, and works beautifully.

Regards,
Ed

 

[chartwell99]

Nice hearing from you. I got interested in the Neptune models after finding the attached Swift brochure from 1958. An Audubon is not on the cover, but rather a Model 802 Neptune. Does it look like yours? I believe it was made by Tamron, but they were not conveniently dated like the subsequent Hiyoshi Kogaku models.. In 1965 and 1968 two additional 802 models appeared, also by Tamron, but I have no indication of gutta percha being used. The 1965 model is quite beautiful, and made for attachment to cameras. Is this the one you own? Lucky fellow if it is.

My 1988 Neptune 802 is marvelous. It's almost a scaled down miniature of the Type 2 Audubon, and works beautifully.

Regards,
Ed

Ed,

Thanks for posting the Neptune photo and description. Fascinating. I suspect my Neptune is an even earlier model. Mine has none of the brightwork on the focusing wheel, eyecups or objective rings, and has a smaller field of view (394 at 1000 yards as I recall). Physically, it is indistinguishable in appearance from a 1947 Bausch & Lomb 7 x 35 Zephyr, although noticeably lighter. My later model Neptune which I concluded was redundant and reluctantly sold, and likely dated from the early 80's, also avoided any of the brightwork shown in your photo, but retained the wider field of view. The faux leather covering was grey and described in a Swift brochure of the period as a hardwearing thermoplastic. It lacked the high quality feel and appearance of the earlier version (i.e., more plastic and simpler bridge) but was also amazingly sharp and satisfying. It's a shame the Neptune, unlike the Audubon, is no longer made. Nice to hear from you, too, BTW.

 

[Simon S]

My latest addition is a pair of Swift Supeme's in great condition. A flea bay buy it now for £35! Jumped at the chance.
They are almost the same as the Audobon but 10x50 with Bak4 prisms and the gold band. They will be compared with my Bushnell 10x50 Customs this weekend to see which is the better optically.

 

[elkcub]

My latest addition is a pair of Swift Supeme's in great condition. A flea bay buy it now for £35! Jumped at the chance.
They are almost the same as the Audobon but 10x50 with Bak4 prisms and the gold band. They will be compared with my Bushnell 10x50 Customs this weekend to see which is the better optically.

Simon,

I almost missed this post. They are quite a buy at £35! Often the best ones are buy-it-now. I'm sure we'll be hearing more soon.

Didn't you buy another Supreme some months ago for a low price?

Ed

 

[Simon S]

Simon,

I almost missed this post. They are quite a buy at £35! Often the best ones are buy-it-now. I'm sure we'll be hearing more soon.

Didn't you buy another Supreme some months ago for a low price?

Ed

Yes sorry it was the same one. I thought I put a post on this forum 3

 

[elkcub]

Yes sorry it was the same one. I thought I put a post on this forum 3

Well, I'm not going daft quite yet. One reason I value collecting and refurbishing older Swift products, Audubons in particular, is that they provide a comparative basis for optical technology development over the last half of the 20th Century. It's really nice, for example, to have a way to compare binoculars with similar designs, or the same design with different degrees of coating. Our recent "discovery" of Audubons dating back to the early 1950s is an eye-opener. I'm coming to see that some of the later designs compromised the original quality and beauty of the product. It's similar to what many say about Leitz/Leica's Trinovid series.

I've also become interested in the development of binocular eyecups. Again, the Swift product line reveals how much of a struggle it must have been, going from fixed, to removable, to threaded metal, to rubber, and finally twist up, and then locking. Fascinating evolution!

Ed

 

[Simon S]

I am looking for info on the Swift Neptune 7x50 MK1. Anyone know this model?

 

[orbitaljump]

I think I have them here in more Parkers catalog. Ill get back to you.

 

[elkcub]

The only information I have is for a Model 802 7x35 Neptune. It's an outstanding small and handy instrument. I own one in mint condition made in 1988. It's like a miniature Audubon. (Note that 7/8.5 = .82, and .82 * 44 = 36.2, so the proportions are pretty close.)

Are you sure there is a 7x50 Neptune Mk I? Do you have a picture or s/n? None of my catalogs show it, — but they are incomplete.

Ed

 

[Simon S]

See here Elkcub!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160301967105

 

[elkcub]

Ok. It's a Swift-Pyser offering with a body similar to (but not the same as) Type 3 Audubons from SP. The red ribbon is a tip-off. Not distributed in the US. Most likely it was made by Hiyoshi Kogaku in the mid 1970s. The sequel may have been the 7x50 Red Label "Skipper," that has a Type 4 body and similar FOV.

Note that the FOV is only 376', which makes for a rather narrow 50 deg. apparent field, vs. the 68 deg. apparent field of an Audubon. It probably doesn't use a 5-element eyepiece for this reason. One thing to consider is that a "tunnel effect" is somewhat more pronounced with a narrow field Porro than a wide one. I assume it's fully coated, but too early for multicoating. It probably also has considerable heft.

My experience is that sellers usually don't realize the need for cleaning, and may even state it's "clean as a whistle" with pure sincerity. Proper (professional) cleaning, alignment, and collimation, however, can often make a dull instrument into a gem.

Good luck,
Ed