The new 8x30 CLl's (1 Viewer)

[mooreorless]

"And you've been on enough hunting forums to know that the SLCs are the darlings of hunters. Many more posts and threads about them on Optics Talk and 24hrcampfire than on BF. Didn't you buy your 7x30 SLC based on John Barsness's recommendation in is book "Hunting Optics"?"

"Optics For The Hunter" [copyright 1999] wasn't out when I bought the 7x30SLC


"I also liked the image quality. Ingraham measured the 8x SLC's resolution @ 4 arcseconds. They don't seem quite as sharp as the 8x SE to my eyes, but I didn't do a resolution test. You have the 8x SE, have you done a side by side resolution test?"

No, the 8SE is sharper.

 

[[email protected]]

:clap:

I am just a sucker for new models especially from Swarovski.

 

[elkcub]

The first step in rehab is to admit to the addiction. :t:

Ed

 

[lilcrazy2]

Steve

Like you, I am a big fan of the SLCs bottom end focuser and consider it to be one of lifes great innovations right behind sliced bread and bikini wax. I have no trouble achieving fine focus on mine at all, or any kind of focus, and actually find that the binos balance better due to the slightly modified grip required. Perhaps those with less coordination and dexterity might find the ring finger focusing a bit counter intuitive, but it seems like Swaro, Nikon and Alpen have all gone to it in their compact bino lineups.

Now if Bushnell would just resurrect the 8x28 Excursions with dielectric prism coatings and a bottom end focuser, I wouldn't be tempted by the CLs.

Tom

 

[Alexis Powell]

comparative reviews?

I'm interested in comparative reviews because new models from the major brands almost always inspire a lot of raves. I'm especially interested in comparisons to the two alphas that are most similar in quality, size, and weight--the Zeiss FL and Leica Ulravid HD. Is the CL any smaller than the latter? Its FOV and close focus specs are substandard for an alpha midsize. What are this model's special talents?

--AP

 

[Sancho]

I'm interested in comparative reviews because new models from the major brands almost always inspire a lot of raves. I'm especially interested in comparisons to the two alphas that are most similar in quality, size, and weight--the Zeiss FL and Leica Ulravid HD. Is the CL any smaller than the latter? Its FOV and close focus specs are substandard for an alpha midsize. What are this model's special talents?

--AP

Good points. Nothing to go on until they're compared extensively with similar models. So far the main selling-point seems to be that they're a cute size and shape. I don't think I could get on with the fairly restricted FOV.

 

[mooreorless]

Good points. Nothing to go on until they're compared extensively with similar models. So far the main selling-point seems to be that they're a cute size and shape. I don't think I could get on with the fairly restricted FOV.

Oh you picky Swarovision folks.:-O

 

[[email protected]]

Good points. Nothing to go on until they're compared extensively with similar models. So far the main selling-point seems to be that they're a cute size and shape. I don't think I could get on with the fairly restricted FOV.

I thought the slightly smaller FOV of the CL would bother me but it doesn't. I would say the CL is as good if not better than any 32mm I have tried including the Zeiss FL, Nikon SE, Nikon EII,Leica BN or Leica Ultravid. But I am going by memory because I don't have those anymore. Overall I would say it is smaller and more compact than any 32mm I have tried and the optics in this thing are amazing for it's size. It really fits your hands nice probably better than any of the more bulky 32mm's. The optics although not quite as good are similar to the 8.5x42 SV. The 8.5x magnification in the SV brings things quite a bit closer than the 8x in the CL and of course the edges are a little sharper in the SV but the CL has quite sharp edges and a big sweet spot typical of Swarovski. I am telling you it is a very nice binocular especially to get Swarovski quality for less than $1 K. Great compact binocular for traveling and carrying about. It is lighter than most 32mm's and it is strange how much difference a few ounces makes but you can hold the CL all day without tiring.

 

[stephen b]

I would say the CL is as good if not better than any 32mm I have tried including the Zeiss FL, Nikon SE, Nikon EII,Leica BN or Leica Ultravid.

I know that the statement above is one man's opinion- but that is both a strong statement and endorsement!

I have not seen the CL yet- but I would be shocked if it had better resolution than a Nikon SE, or an Ultravid. Also I am fairly confident that it does not have the resolution of the Swarovski 8x32 EL. And this mention of it being a little SV- I find that a bit of hyperbole- as it does not have near the glass quality of the SV or the Swaro SLC HD.

Why would Swarovski come out with a bino on par with a EL, not to mention a SV or HD and then go a head and price it way below?? Exactly- they would not.

I spoke to a main salesperson who works for one of the big optic selling companies yesterday on the phone; and I asked him a ? regarding the comparison between the 8x30 CL and the 8x30 SLC NEU - as I felt that this was to be the best head to head. And.. he told me that in his opinion it was not quite as good optically as the SLC NEU. He said it was close- but not quite as good. And this was from a big fan of Swarovski - who has owned a 8x30 SLC before and who now owns and uses a 8x32 EL and a 8.5 x42 Swarovision.

He said that it (CL) was a nice bin with all of the Swaro quality and would be a big seller. The one thing that I do see that the CL's have going for them is they do weigh 3 oz. lighter than the previous model. I also asked him how it compared to the 8x32 EL- and he said that the CL is not in the same league as the EL as far as resolution, sharpness -etc.

This was my hypothesis of the bin before I even saw it- just based on price point- specs, etc. I posted some of the following on another forum that was discussing this new bin.

Why would they (Swaro.) price them lower than the most recent full retail price on the 8x30 SLC NEU that they are clearly replacing. No one improves something and lowers the price- especially not Swarovski. And also why would they continue for now to put out the 8x32 EL and charge a lot more for it- if the CL was anywhere near as good at a much lower price.- They wouldn't.

I am just disappointed that Swarovski did not make an improvement (ED/HD glass etc ) with the 8x30 SLC or even as yet improve the 8x32 EL. I understand that they wanted what they consider to be an entry level (if you call almost 1 k entry) to compete with the other mid market mid priced bins that are breathing down their neck.

I would have loved to see a SLC 8x30 HD. Instead of some new bin that I do not believe is any improvement at all in the 8x30 format that they already had. They really have not made any real significant improvements to that size ( or even the 8x32 EL) over the last 10 years. So for me to get excited about a new offering from Swaro in this size range- they were going to have to make a forward move- not what I see as a lateral one. Even that remains to be seen if it was indeed a lateral one. The CL may not even be on par with the SLC NEU or the EL.

But, then again when they do that- really make a forward move; they will not be priced at less than 1K. It will certainly jump to the 2 K range. And that (a SLC 8x30 HD ) at 2K would have probably been a tough sell. So now they will probably make the forward move with the 8x32 EL (a la -Swarovision) and that will make more sense to potential buyers.

For those new to Swarovski buyers- I am sure that this new offering (CL ) will be a great little binocular and will serve them for years to come.

I just cannot get real excited about something that is only just as good as what is already out there. Do not get me wrong- the SLC and the EL's are great, but for those of us that already have something like that- why buy with no real improvement. -Unless you just want a little- "mini me" ;^)

And, it would be cute to have tag along with you.

 

[brocknroller]

...

What are this model's special talents?

--AP

According to her resume, this model can dance, sing, and juggle five balls at the same time, but given the dearth of variety shows these days, her main "talent" seems to be costing less than half the price of the top dogs:

http://www.penn-olson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/money-binoculars.jpg

Brock

 

[elkcub]

I know that the statement above is one man's opinion- but that is both a strong statement and endorsement!

I have not seen the CL yet- but I would be shocked if it had better resolution than a Nikon SE, or an Ultravid. Also I am fairly confident that it does not have the resolution of the Swarovski 8x32 EL. And this mention of it being a little SV- I find that a bit of hyperbole- as it does not have near the glass quality of the SV or the Swaro SLC HD.

Why would Swarovski come out with a bino on par with a EL, not to mention a SV or HD and then go a head and price it way below?? Exactly- they would not.

I spoke to a main salesperson who works for one of the big optic selling companies yesterday on the phone; and I asked him a ? regarding the comparison between the 8x30 CL and the 8x30 SLC NEU - as I felt that this was to be the best head to head. And.. he told me that in his opinion it was not quite as good optically as the SLC NEU. He said it was close- but not quite as good. And this was from a big fan of Swarovski - who has owned a 8x30 SLC before and who not owns and uses a 8x32 EL and a 8.5 x42 Swarovision.

He said that it (CL) was a nice bin with all of the Swaro quality and would be a big seller. The one thing that I do see that the CL's have going for them is they do weigh 3 oz. lighter than the previous model. I also asked him how it compared to the 8x32 EL- and he said that the CL is not in the same league as the EL as far as resolution, sharpness -etc.

This was my hypothesis of the bin before I even saw it- just based on price point- specs, etc. I posted some of the following on another forum that was discussing this new bin.

Why would they (Swaro.) price them lower than the most recent full retail price on the 8x30 SLC NEU that they are clearly replacing. No one improves something and lowers the price- especially not Swarovski. And also why would they continue for now to put out the 8x32 EL and charge a lot more for it- if the CL was anywhere near as good at a much lower price.- They wouldn't.

I am just disappointed that Swarovski did not make an improvement (ED/HD glass etc ) with the 8x30 SLC or even as yet improve the 8x32 EL. I understand that they wanted what they consider to be an entry level (if you call almost 1 k entry) to compete with the other mid market mid priced bins that are breathing down their neck.

I would have loved to see a SLC 8x30 HD. Instead of some new bin that I do not believe is any improvement at all in the 8x30 format that they already had. They really have not made any real significant improvements to that size ( or even the 8x32 EL) over the last 10 years. So for me to get excited about a new offering from Swaro in this size range- they were going to have to make a forward move- not what I see as a lateral one. Even that remains to be seen if it was indeed a lateral one. The CL may not even be on par with the SLC NEU or the EL.

But, then again when they do that- really make a forward move; they will not be priced at less than 1K. It will certainly jump to the 2 K range. And that (a SLC 8x30 HD ) at 2K would have probably been a tough sell. So now they will probably make the forward move with the 8x32 EL (a la -Swarovision) and that will make more sense to potential buyers.

For those new to Swarovski buyers- I am sure that this new offering (CL ) will be a great little binocular and will serve them for years to come.

I just cannot get real excited about something that is only just as good as what is already out there. Do not get me wrong- the SLC and the EL's are great, but for those of us that already have something like that- why buy with no real improvement. -Unless you just want a little- "mini me" ;^)

And, it would be cute to have tag along with you.

Nice analysis. Very logical. It's clear that Swarovski has established a lower tier product line with a very decent offering.

I wouldn't be too surprised, however, if they do eventually come up with an 8x30/32 SLC HD to compete with the Z, L, and N offerings.

Ed

 

[stephen b]

...... It's clear that Swarovski has established a lower tier product line with a very decent offering. Ed

I whole hardily agree. And when I think about it, from a business stand point it is a brilliant move.

It is not as if they really stepped backwards in their product line evolution with the creation of the CL line. But it is as if- while they made a big step forward with the game changer- Swarovision and improved the SLC (HD); with the CL they established a whole new line, while phasing out an old- the old SLC NEU. Guess the NEU is not "new" anymore- it just doesn't exist really.

Really a smart move by them I think. Because up until now Swarovski has been making constant improvements on their line (SLC and EL), over the years with the improvements made on the SLC; ie:- the NEU and then the HD or also improved by introducing new binoculars- first the EL and then the Swarovision big upgrade in that version.

So I think based on the releases in the last year and a half that they have done with the- EL to the Swarovision and then the SLC NEU to the HD; I and maybe others was beginning to think that that trend was just going to continue. And with the increase in the prices along with the improvements- I was beginning to think that the starting point for for Swarovski was going to be the around the 2K figure (like the SV and HD are).

But while they made a big forward step with the SV and HD- They now have started almost over with a new line (CL), while they have phased out an old (NEU) line. It is as if they leap frogged forward and then circled to the back starting point and came up with a new "Companion" line which is both new and was never really part of the original Swaro. lineage. Brilliant!!

So now while they can move forward with their "Alpha" first tier lineup- they can also forge ahead with a new "lower" if you will lineup. So now it is not as if Swaro only means only Alpha tier. The CL will keep the "alpha" type of prestige, but will be offered at a point that someone does not have to give the equivalent of 1, 2 or 3 house mortgage payments (depending on the pmt.) to buy into the Swaro offerings.

And in the future they can make improvements to the upper part of the lineup and with that higher prices- and they can also make improvements to the CL line and also increase their price as well.

I thought of some of this while going on a hike today after reading Ed's comment and re-reading over my post.

At first it kind of bothered me that Swarovski did not include as of yet my favorite size of glass (30-32mm) with it's big improvements (SV and HD) that they have made in the last 1 1/2 years. But now I can see a really smart move on their part with this CL line. Even though I will not be a buyer of that model - I am waiting for a forward move of either the 8x30 - to HD or the inevitable move of the 8x32 to SV.

And to think they did not even have the decency to call or email me for my opinion ;^) of what direction to go in all of this.

Well, you can tell that Swarovski did not get to where they are today by being poor businessmen/ or women. They seem to know exactly what they are doing and they just move along to the beat of their own drum. And it does have a nice good beat.

 

[NDhunter]

Stephan:

Lots of logic in your post, and I agree with your assessment of the new CL. I think it
is a nice new addition to the Swarovski lineup. As some have mentioned, 95% or more
of the performance, of the very top Alphas, at 1/2 the price.

From what I have seen, very bright, light in weight and just what I expected, and would expect from Swarovski.

Jerry

 

[Kammerdiner]

Lots of "logic"; zero "experience." For all us empiricists out here, could we refrain from reviewing binoculars we haven't even seen. The last 5 posters have zip to go on except second hand stuff which may, or may not, be useful.

Mark

 

[NDhunter]

Mark:
I have had mine in hand for a few days. More to follow next week, need more testing. So don't be concerned, I only offer comments on binoculars that I have experience with.

Jerry

 

[[email protected]]

I know that the statement above is one man's opinion- but that is both a strong statement and endorsement!

I have not seen the CL yet- but I would be shocked if it had better resolution than a Nikon SE, or an Ultravid. Also I am fairly confident that it does not have the resolution of the Swarovski 8x32 EL. And this mention of it being a little SV- I find that a bit of hyperbole- as it does not have near the glass quality of the SV or the Swaro SLC HD.

Why would Swarovski come out with a bino on par with a EL, not to mention a SV or HD and then go a head and price it way below?? Exactly- they would not.

I spoke to a main salesperson who works for one of the big optic selling companies yesterday on the phone; and I asked him a ? regarding the comparison between the 8x30 CL and the 8x30 SLC NEU - as I felt that this was to be the best head to head. And.. he told me that in his opinion it was not quite as good optically as the SLC NEU. He said it was close- but not quite as good. And this was from a big fan of Swarovski - who has owned a 8x30 SLC before and who now owns and uses a 8x32 EL and a 8.5 x42 Swarovision.

He said that it (CL) was a nice bin with all of the Swaro quality and would be a big seller. The one thing that I do see that the CL's have going for them is they do weigh 3 oz. lighter than the previous model. I also asked him how it compared to the 8x32 EL- and he said that the CL is not in the same league as the EL as far as resolution, sharpness -etc.

This was my hypothesis of the bin before I even saw it- just based on price point- specs, etc. I posted some of the following on another forum that was discussing this new bin.

Why would they (Swaro.) price them lower than the most recent full retail price on the 8x30 SLC NEU that they are clearly replacing. No one improves something and lowers the price- especially not Swarovski. And also why would they continue for now to put out the 8x32 EL and charge a lot more for it- if the CL was anywhere near as good at a much lower price.- They wouldn't.

I am just disappointed that Swarovski did not make an improvement (ED/HD glass etc ) with the 8x30 SLC or even as yet improve the 8x32 EL. I understand that they wanted what they consider to be an entry level (if you call almost 1 k entry) to compete with the other mid market mid priced bins that are breathing down their neck.

I would have loved to see a SLC 8x30 HD. Instead of some new bin that I do not believe is any improvement at all in the 8x30 format that they already had. They really have not made any real significant improvements to that size ( or even the 8x32 EL) over the last 10 years. So for me to get excited about a new offering from Swaro in this size range- they were going to have to make a forward move- not what I see as a lateral one. Even that remains to be seen if it was indeed a lateral one. The CL may not even be on par with the SLC NEU or the EL.

But, then again when they do that- really make a forward move; they will not be priced at less than 1K. It will certainly jump to the 2 K range. And that (a SLC 8x30 HD ) at 2K would have probably been a tough sell. So now they will probably make the forward move with the 8x32 EL (a la -Swarovision) and that will make more sense to potential buyers.

For those new to Swarovski buyers- I am sure that this new offering (CL ) will be a great little binocular and will serve them for years to come.

I just cannot get real excited about something that is only just as good as what is already out there. Do not get me wrong- the SLC and the EL's are great, but for those of us that already have something like that- why buy with no real improvement. -Unless you just want a little- "mini me" ;^)

And, it would be cute to have tag along with you.

Pretty good theory for someone who has not even seen the CL. But all it is is theory. You are judging a binocular by what you think it should be based on price not what it is! Remember coating and optics technology have made signifigant advances in the last few years allowing manufacturers to make superior binoculars for less money and that includes Swarovski. The El and the SLC are relatively old models and I really feel this newer model CL has benefited from advances in technology and perhaps lessons Swarovski has learned in designing there flagship SV. I have a Swarovski SV and a CL in my hands comparing them side by side and I tell you this CL outside of a slightly smaller FOV and slightly less sharp edges is very close to the SV. I am not basing this observation on some marketing theory somebody came up with I am basing it on fact. I feel Swarovski is using this new model to get people to try a Swarovski who in the past perhaps couldn't afford the $2K prices of there top models but might buy this new model instead of a similar priced Japanese model. But they know this new model better be good because if it isn't these new buyers will never buy another Swarovski. That's why it has to be good. Very good. And it is. It is one of the most remarkable bargains out there right now and you get Swarovski quality to boot.

 

[stephen b]

Mark and Dennis-

Very fair points made. I stated from the top of my first post in this thread that I have not as yet had my hands on a CL. I was going on an hypothesis as far as it not having the upgraded glass and that it might quite possibly not be as good as the previous 8x30, not to mention the 8x32 EL. So your points are taken.

But, I have never seen Swarovski improve something and then not increase the price. And if this binocular is anywhere as good as the 8x32 EL (not to mention the SV)- why then is it (CL) priced $710 less than the current sale price on the EL. Makes zero sense.

Now I was thinking of spending the shipping money to test out the CL by having Eagle Optics send me one, just to test for myself, since as of yet I cannot get my hands on one yet. But I fully trust a sales person that I am familiar with there and is a big fan of Swarovski; and I wanted his first hand experience, since he has a 8x32 EL and a 8.5x42 SV and has had a 8x30 SLC in the past.

I figured that this fella would know what he is talking about. Now, -I did have my own theory's before speaking with him, but I wanted his opinion. This guy really knows his optics, is an active birder and he also has a Nikon 8x32 SE among others. He was very straight with me and I did not give him any of my preconceived notions ahead of time. He stated emphatically that they were not in the league of the EL's and he felt that they were optically a little behind the most recent SLC NEU (that by the way had all of the current Swaro coatings and was still being made in 2011). Close, but not quite as good. So I did not order the CL to even test out based on that.

But,... now I may have to spend the shipping coin just to test them out. I really hate to do that, because I do not want to keep these. I am keeping my current SLC and going to wait for the upgrade in HD?ED glass to either a 8x30 or 8x32 format. But I may just order anyways, even though I hate to take advantage of the liberal 30 day send back time. I really should just wait till the Cabelas in town gets them in and then get them to look at.

I think the CL will make a great bino for either people who do not already have Swaro quality, or those that want another Swaro to their line-up. For me (1) Swaro is enough at a time.

Only way to do a serious side by side of any of these 8x30/32 size bino's is to get all the top models with about 15 to 25 people and set up USAF resolution charts and also do a bunch of user feedback analysis. Then the truth will be known, or at least close, since you would have some fairly hard data and emperical evidence.

But in the end.... -"the beauty is in the eye (eyes) of the beholder"

 

[Kammerdiner]

Mark:
I have had mine in hand for a few days. More to follow next week, need more testing. So don't be concerned, I only offer comments on binoculars that I have experience with.

Jerry

That's all I ask for. Thanks Jerry.

Mark

 

[[email protected]]

Mark and Dennis-

Very fair points made. I stated from the top of my first post in this thread that I have not as yet had my hands on a CL. I was going on an hypothesis as far as it not having the upgraded glass and that it might quite possibly not be as good as the previous 8x30, not to mention the 8x32 EL. So your points are taken.

But, I have never seen Swarovski improve something and then not increase the price. And if this binocular is anywhere as good as the 8x32 EL (not to mention the SV)- why then is it (CL) priced $710 less than the current sale price on the EL. Makes zero sense.

Now I was thinking of spending the shipping money to test out the CL by having Eagle Optics send me one, just to test for myself, since as of yet I cannot get my hands on one yet. But I fully trust a sales person that I am familiar with there and is a big fan of Swarovski; and I wanted his first hand experience, since he has a 8x32 EL and a 8.5x42 SV and has had a 8x30 SLC in the past.

I figured that this fella would know what he is talking about. Now, -I did have my own theory's before speaking with him, but I wanted his opinion. This guy really knows his optics, is an active birder and he also has a Nikon 8x32 SE among others. He was very straight with me and I did not give him any of my preconceived notions ahead of time. He stated emphatically that they were not in the league of the EL's and he felt that they were optically a little behind the most recent SLC NEU (that by the way had all of the current Swaro coatings and was still being made in 2011). Close, but not quite as good. So I did not order the CL to even test out based on that.

But,... now I may have to spend the shipping coin just to test them out. I really hate to do that, because I do not want to keep these. I am keeping my current SLC and going to wait for the upgrade in HD?ED glass to either a 8x30 or 8x32 format. But I may just order anyways, even though I hate to take advantage of the liberal 30 day send back time. I really should just wait till the Cabelas in town gets them in and then get them to look at.

I think the CL will make a great bino for either people who do not already have Swaro quality, or those that want another Swaro to their line-up. For me (1) Swaro is enough at a time.

Only way to do a serious side by side of any of these 8x30/32 size bino's is to get all the top models with about 15 to 25 people and set up USAF resolution charts and also do a bunch of user feedback analysis. Then the truth will be known, or at least close, since you would have some fairly hard data and emperical evidence.

But in the end.... -"the beauty is in the eye (eyes) of the beholder"

"But,... now I may have to spend the shipping coin just to test them out. I really hate to do that, because I do not want to keep these. I am keeping my current SLC and going to wait for the upgrade in HD?ED glass to either a 8x30 or 8x32 format. But I may just order anyways, even though I hate to take advantage of the liberal 30 day send back time. I really should just wait till the Cabelas in town gets them in and then get them to look at."

It's been discussed before on other threads but I don't think HD glass will make a huge difference on a 30mm aperture. I don't feel Swarovski will come out with a 32mm HD SV because It won't be that much of an improvement over the CL.

"But I fully trust a sales person that I am familiar with there and is a big fan of Swarovski; and I wanted his first hand experience, since he has a 8x32 EL and a 8.5x42 SV and has had a 8x30 SLC in the past."

I never trust SALES people because that's what they are SALES people. Of course he is going to tell you the SLC and the EL are way better than the CL because they make more profit on a more expensive binocular. SALES people will always steer you to the most expensive model or the one with most profit margin for them. I would do like you are doing. Try them and see what you think. I think you will be surprised how good they are if they work for you.

 

[Alexis Powell]

Personally, I'm not much interested in the pricing. I can see how it is very relevant for first time buyers and potential new Swarovski customers, but for those of us who already own a premium alpha, the question is more about whether a new bin is a significant upgrade (or fills a significant niche use) rather than whether it is worth its price. It is also hard to be impressed with $800-$1000 price tags on alphas when one can remember when today's alphas could be had new for the same. Sure, the dollar is worth less, but my salary is very much the same as back then, and other things like food and such don't seem to have risen in cost nearly as much as have alpha binocular prices. I'm still more impressed with how high prices have climbed on alphas than how low the price of the CL has been set.

--AP