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Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

Zeiss Terra ED: First Look (1 Viewer)

Thanks Randy and Brock - my $$$ is going mostly into a new old farm house we bought up here in the northwest corner of Connecticut - specifically Kent. If I can squeeze out anymore, I'd like to buy another camera since photography is really my main interest and where I tend to spend my cash.

I should have my new binoculars on Monday.
 
Look what just showed up at the office...

I love the fancy "museum display" box. Definitely a nice touch!
 

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I know - it certainly was well packed! Been meaning to write about my own. Whoever it was a while back that talked about how his binoculars may have been hurt due to a crushed box...that must have been a seriously run over box to have smashed this packaging.:eek!:

Thus far, I have zero complaints and am extremely happy with my new binoculars. Many thanks for this thread - or I'd never have known about them!
 
Look what just showed up at the office...

I love the fancy "museum display" box. Definitely a nice touch!

Yes it is unique. Now it's time for the Terra EDs to appear on outdoor dealers shelves to see if the packaging attracts buyers at it's very reasonable and competitive price.

I'm glad to see you got a 10 x 42. There is no review of the 10 x 42 yet and I've been looking forward to reading one.

The 10 x 42 has a 60º FOV or 330'@1000 yards which is good enough. It has rather short 14mm eye relief so a report of how it works with glasses will be valuable.

Good luck with it! Let's hope it gets through the initial collimation vetting out in good shape.

Bob
 
Yeah, I'm usually an 8x type of guy but I've been thinking I need to add a good "full size" 10x42 to the stable, and I found a good price on these. I will be comparing them primarily to my wife's well worn Nikon Monarch 10x42 (original "ATB" pre-DE coatings).

Some brief initial thoughts:

No collimation issues on mine. View is clean and easy with no eye strain.

They do have a bit of a "new rubber" smell to them, I'll see how long that takes to dissipate.

I do not wear glasses so it's hard for me to comment on that, but (for me at least) the eyecups extension is absolutely perfect for the eye relief. I can extend the eyecups fully, plop them in my eye sockets, and easily see the full FOV without any fiddling. I find the eyecups quite comfortable and they hold their positions much more firmly than the typical budget bin.

The FOV feels nice for a 10x, although not "expansive" they are clearly wider than that of my wife's 10x42 Monarch. Initial comparisons indicate the Terra ED is a bit brighter, with a larger sweet spot and better corrected FOV. Clean, saturated colors, nearly neutral color balance, minimal pincushion, a gradual fall-off to the edges with mild field curvature, and well controlled lateral CA (much better than the old Monarch). But they aren't actually any sharper on-axis than the Monarchs.

These remind me why I liked them when I handled the pre-production models at the SD bird fair -- they just feel SOLID and well built. From the solid eyecup mechanism to the buttery smooth and precise focus knob, they exude a level of quality that IMO really differentiates them from the rest of the <$400 budget class of China-bins. While the optics are quite nice, they don't blow away the similarly-priced competition.... but they just FEEL like more expensive binoculars. Although some of the competitor China-bins may boast some other specs like a wider FOV, DE coatings, etc. none of them can touch the overall level of quality and fit and finish of the Terras.
 
The new rubber smell should dissipate in a week or so if mine is typical. Just keep it out in the air for a while like I did. That should be easy to do because they don't come with a case. At least mine didn't. But you can get one for only the cost of shipping when you register yours online with Zeiss. It will cost about 7 bucks and change. The cases are back ordered at the present time.

Bob
 
Di-electric Prism Coatings fo the Terra

I was wondering about the Zeiss Terra prism coatings but did not find it specified in any of the serveral threads or the Zeiss site (although Chosen Juan did ask in another thread). It may be out there somewhere, but I could not find it.

I sent a note to Zeiss Support this morning asking them if prism coatings are di-electric, silver, or something else. Here is the fast response that I received.........

"It is going to be a Schmidt-Pechan with di-electic coating."

That, along with the ED glass puts them in the same class as the Monarch 7 and the Zen-Ray ED3 rather than the Zen-Ray ZRS (with "HD" glass). I am surprised Zeiss does not note this marketing buzz word on the Terra web page. Here is what they say: " TERRA ED Binoculars combine SCHOTT ED glass with ZEISS MC coating for pure, bright and vivid images, even in low light."
 
Good to know, thanks for checking. They certainly do FEEL like a DE coated binocular, they have a really bright, vivid, and neutral image.

That said, I tend not to worry about that stuff, as I really only care about the end result, and it's the whole optical system that matters. For example, I have an older Minox BD BR 8x32 which is just as bright as my newer Zen-Ray ZRS HD 8x32 with DE coatings.

In terms of ED glass and CA, I do think the Terra is a little behind some of the ED China-bin offerings. CA isn't objectionable, but it's there and definitely not controlled at the same level as say the Zen ED2/ED3 or Vortex Viper HD. And in the other thread comparing it to the Monarch 7 it was reported that the Nikon was a bit better as well. It's definitely superior though to my wife's older Nikon Monarch and the Minox and ZRS HD.
 
I'd be interested in a comparison to the Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD, which has specs that match or exceed just about everything, regardless of price, yet cost only ~$220. Frankly, I haven't been interested in any other full-sized bins in the low and "mid-priced" market since they arrived. By that statement, I mean that nowadays, when folks ask me for recommendations for full sized bins, I tell them to either get the Bushnell Ultra HD or else get Swarovision EL (or another absolute top of the top premium bin of their choice) and forget everything in-between in price.

--AP
 
While I haven't compared both side-by-side, I have used both. I would speculate that they are roughly equal in brightness/sharpness, but the Terra makes up for the lesser FOV with a much larger sweet spot, and better corrected edges (less pincushion and fall-off). Like many other "budget ED" bins, I found the Legend was extremely bright and sharp but had a smallish sweet spot.

Overall though I would speculate the optics are close enough that it's really a coin-toss based on preference for what types of optical compromises you prefer. What I can say for sure is that the Terra completely crushes it in terms of build quality and fit & finish. The Legend feels sort of "cheap" and of course is well known for plastic diopter rings falling off and whatnot. The Terra is extremely solid and feels robust and well built, it feels like a much more expensive binocular in that sense.
 
I have to point out here, once more, that the Terra ED has really outstanding glare control! It rivals and even tops some of my alphas in that respect.

Bob
 
Thanks, eitanaltman, for those comparisons. Yes, the build quality of the Bushnell is pitiful, so given the very competitive price of the Zeiss (and the surprisingly uncompetitive pricing of Nikon's Monarch 5 and 7 offerings relative to competitors with same or better optical quality), I might have to have a look at it for recommending to others.

I have to point out here, once more, that the Terra ED has really outstanding glare control! It rivals and even tops some of my alphas in that respect.
That's great, but in my experience the Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD is also superb in that respect. In fact, I've found it second to none.

--AP
 
Thanks, eitanaltman, for those comparisons. Yes, the build quality of the Bushnell is pitiful, so given the very competitive price of the Zeiss (and the surprisingly uncompetitive pricing of Nikon's Monarch 5 and 7 offerings relative to competitors with same or better optical quality), I might have to have a look at it for recommending to others.


That's great, but in my experience the Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD is also superb in that respect. In fact, I've found it second to none.

--AP


Strange, as the 10x36 is just horrible in this regard. Different internal construction I guess.
 
I'd be interested in a comparison to the Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD, which has specs that match or exceed just about everything, regardless of price, yet cost only ~$220. Frankly, I haven't been interested in any other full-sized bins in the low and "mid-priced" market since they arrived. By that statement, I mean that nowadays, when folks ask me for recommendations for full sized bins, I tell them to either get the Bushnell Ultra HD or else get Swarovision EL (or another absolute top of the top premium bin of their choice) and forget everything in-between in price.

While I haven't compared both side-by-side, I have used both. I would speculate that they are roughly equal in brightness/sharpness, but the Terra makes up for the lesser FOV with a much larger sweet spot, and better corrected edges (less pincushion and fall-off). Like many other "budget ED" bins, I found the Legend was extremely bright and sharp but had a smallish sweet spot.

Overall though I would speculate the optics are close enough that it's really a coin-toss based on preference for what types of optical compromises you prefer. What I can say for sure is that the Terra completely crushes it in terms of build quality and fit & finish. The Legend feels sort of "cheap" and of course is well known for plastic diopter rings falling off and whatnot. The Terra is extremely solid and feels robust and well built, it feels like a much more expensive binocular in that sense.

Thanks, eitanaltman, for those comparisons. Yes, the build quality of the Bushnell is pitiful, so given the very competitive price of the Zeiss (and the surprisingly uncompetitive pricing of Nikon's Monarch 5 and 7 offerings relative to competitors with same or better optical quality), I might have to have a look at it for recommending to others.
I have to point out here, once more, that the Terra ED has really outstanding glare control! It rivals and even tops some of my alphas in that respect.
That's great, but in my experience the Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD is also superb in that respect. In fact, I've found it second to none.

Wow! Eitan - that's a whopping B-I-G coin! (=$111.65!!!) |8.| (better stand clear when that thing lands!) |:p|
Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD $218.34 http://www.adorama.com/BS198042.html
Zeiss 8x42 Terra ED $329.99 http://www.adorama.com/ZS842TED.html

Let's not forget this one either: Vanguard Endeavor ED 8x42 $299.99 http://www.adorama.com/VGEN842ED.html
(although that's a smaller $30 coin!) ;)

It's interesting that you regard the brightness as ~ a wash, despite the dielectric v's silver coatings. Also interesting comments about the sweet spot.

Folks, :brains: I'd like to see much more quantitative comparisons of the optical field, and particularly the *actual* real field sizes of the sweet spots (as well as in percentage terms of the visible view)

I think comparisons of the Terra ED with competitors down |8(| the pecking order are where the real interest lies .....

ie. Why pay more for the Zeiss? (if I read about brand cache' one more time I'm gonna *barf* |8||)
Ok, fair enough, the tangibles mentioned so far are the excellent glare control (somebody wanna quantify that please? - degrees* off low sun before glare becomes apparent?), and the "feel" of quality, and "robustness" (minor hiccups (o)< so far notwithstanding .....) - but is that enough to "bury" the competition? :gn:

It's looking like the "Volksbin" analogy is rather apt ...... |:d| (Zeiss is gonna hate that!)


Chosun :gh:
 
|:||Juan:

This is a Zeiss thread, have you tried the new Terra ?

If not, watch and learn, your speculation on how they
compare to others is |8||..!

Third party reviews are like toilet paper, quickly thrown away.

Jerry
 
Ffs

Jerry, your continual sniping of other's posts is .. |=o|

Surely you can find something more constructive to say? . |^|

I really am starting to think that it seems you like to drive really slow in the ultra-fast lane ..... :smoke:

For the record - my post was no more a "review" than it was a "flying pig", or the "can-can". :cat:

If you are having difficulty comprehending English (or our version of it anysways!) ;) you could try running it through Google Translate http://translate.google.com.au/?hl=en&tab=wT

Anyway ..... on with the show! :clap:



Chosun :gh:
 
... glare control (somebody wanna quantify that please? - degrees* off low sun before glare becomes apparent?) ...
CJ, more to it, I thought, and would guess he means more here. Glare off sunlit water when looking at birds in /on it. Veiling glare. Poss. yet other types. What you mean is also called flare, I believe. Frightening to think - can the control of it be so good now in some models that one might pan into the sun without that warning?
 
and...

Why should this venerable forum member - Chosun Juan - be subjected to all the unfounded claims about the Zeiss Terra ED, the value for price charged statements, impetuous claims as to its merits without being subjected to the most vigorous scrutiny and measurement. Very upsetting indeed.

The only cure for Zeiss dyspepsia that I am aware of is found in the Zen Ray forum - where edge to edge clarity is said to roam. Think of the bliss, days and days of endless freedom, safe from the foolish and lavish claims of the great binocular unwashed...you could be a guru there Chosun Juan!

This would leave the Zeiss forum the place where the rest of us can enjoy the new Zeiss "wunder optik," even though we are sorely deluded.
 
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It's interesting that you regard the brightness as ~ a wash, despite the dielectric v's silver coatings. Also interesting comments about the sweet spot.

A few points:

1. To be clear, I did NOT do rigorous side-by-side comparisons of the Legend and Terra. I said they were "roughly equal" in terms of brightness/sharpness. I tried them within a few minutes of each other, but at different ends of the room, and on a bright sunny day. It's certainly possible that in certain extreme situations (e.g. low lighting, harsh glare) the Terra could have a more significant advantage.

2. In terms of the "roughly equal" comment, I think that's true of nearly any optic in a similar price range (in this case the $200-500 class). Among the various minute differences that us obsessives on this forum like to nit-pick, brightness is one that I think is often overrated. I don't think people can reliably discern a few percentage points of transmission difference, especially with other variables like lighting, color balance, contrast, etc. that can cloud the user's ability to determine this quality objectively. When a difference is so subtle that it requires you to sit there and do careful side-by-side comparisons to come up with a tentative judgement, is it a difference worth worrying about?

3. DE coatings do not guarantee that a given binocular will be any brighter in practice than another with non-DE coatings. I think I mentioned this to you earlier, but I don't really care about the specs "on paper", it's the final product that counts. I have used binoculars with non-DE coatings that felt very bright, I have used binoculars supposedly with ED glass that are mediocre with CA control. It's an optical *system* and I'm not going to obsess about the marketing specs, I'm going to look through it with my eyes/brain and decide if I like it or not.

There are situations where a difference in brightness is obvious. For example, I was out last night comparing my Bushnell Excursion 8x28 to the Terra 10x42. The difference was almost like turning a flashlight on when trying to read distant street signs or license plates under the dim light of street lamps. But most of the time, I think difference in brightness are slight enough that they aren't worth obsessing about relative to the other aspects of usability.


It's looking like the "Volksbin" analogy is rather apt ...... (Zeiss is gonna hate that!)

I don't understand why you have been so overwhelmingly negative towards this bin. You were constantly engaging in negative speculation in the "rumor" thread, and now you have managed to take what are essentially unequivocally positive reviews (both from hardened "budget bin" users like myself and multi-alpha owners like Bob and James) and twist them to conform to your negative preconceptions. All while not having tried it yourself.

Comparing it to other favorite "budget bins" doesn't imply what you think it does; it is simply a logical comparison given the $350-400 price point.

I'll try to sum it up and see if you can spin this as a negative: The Terra is just a really nice binocular for the price. You'd probably have to spend at least 3x as much to find something that is appreciably better.

In terms of optics it is fully competitive with more expensive options like the Monarch 7 and Vortex Viper HD, and it is as good or better than any of the popular budget options. In terms of build quality and ergonomics it is class leading, the focus knob is better than anything you can find for the price.

And subjectively, it just FEELS nice to hold in your hand and look through. The Terra strikes a nice compromise with a "wide enough" FOV that is very well corrected and thus relaxing to use. Other budget bins may have better CA control and/or a wider FOV, but they typically sacrifice sweet spot size and off-axis performance (especially excessive pincushion and/or curvature and blurring). One person may subjectively prefer that trade-off; that's what I meant by saying the optics were "a coin-toss based on preference for what types of optical compromises you prefer".

What nit-picks there are not bothersome; it's not perfect to the edge but the fall-off is very gradual, it has minimal pincushion and curvature, it shows some color fringing but it's not excessive. The "totality" of the package is why I like it so much, it's just a very balanced binocular without any glaring weaknesses, it's well built and feels good in the hand, the focus knob is a pleasure, and it will hold its value. While looking at a county record Lesser Sand-Plover this past weekend, I handed it to a friend who owns several alphas and he immediately said, "Wow! These are really nice!" Forget your objective calculations of sweet spot size, THAT is the true test.

Basically, I feel like you get 90% of the Conquest HD's optics and 75% of its build quality for about 35% of the price. Works for me.
 
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A few points:

1. To be clear, I did NOT do rigorous side-by-side comparisons of the Legend and Terra. I said they were "roughly equal" in terms of brightness/sharpness. I tried them within a few minutes of each other, but at different ends of the room, and on a bright sunny day. It's certainly possible that in certain extreme situations (e.g. low lighting, harsh glare) the Terra could have a more significant advantage.

2. In terms of the "roughly equal" comment, I think that's true of nearly any optic in a similar price range (in this case the $200-500 class). Among the various minute differences that us obsessives on this forum like to nit-pick, brightness is one that I think is often overrated. I don't think people can reliably discern a few percentage points of transmission difference, especially with other variables like lighting, color balance, contrast, etc. that can cloud the user's ability to determine this quality objectively. When a difference is so subtle that it requires you to sit there and do careful side-by-side comparisons to come up with a tentative judgement, is it a difference worth worrying about?

3. DE coatings do not guarantee that a given binocular will be any brighter in practice than another with non-DE coatings. I think I mentioned this to you earlier, but I don't really care about the specs "on paper", it's the final product that counts. I have used binoculars with non-DE coatings that felt very bright, I have used binoculars supposedly with ED glass that are mediocre with CA control. It's an optical *system* and I'm not going to obsess about the marketing specs, I'm going to look through it with my eyes/brain and decide if I like it or not.

There are situations where a difference in brightness is obvious. For example, I was out last night comparing my Bushnell Excursion 8x28 to the Terra 10x42. The difference was almost like turning a flashlight on when trying to read distant street signs or license plates under the dim light of street lamps. But most of the time, I think difference in brightness are slight enough that they aren't worth obsessing about relative to the other aspects of usability.




I don't understand why you have been so overwhelmingly negative towards this bin. You were constantly engaging in negative speculation in the "rumor" thread, and now you have managed to take what are essentially unequivocally positive reviews (both from hardened "budget bin" users like myself and multi-alpha owners like Bob and James) and twist them to conform to your negative preconceptions. All while not having tried it yourself.

Comparing it to other favorite "budget bins" doesn't imply what you think it does; it is simply a logical comparison given the $350-400 price point.

I'll try to sum it up and see if you can spin this as a negative: The Terra is just a really nice binocular for the price. You'd probably have to spend at least 3x as much to find something that is appreciably better.

In terms of optics it is fully competitive with more expensive options like the Monarch 7 and Vortex Viper HD, and it is as good or better than any of the popular budget options. In terms of build quality and ergonomics it is class leading, the focus knob is better than anything you can find for the price.

And subjectively, it just FEELS nice to hold in your hand and look through. The Terra strikes a nice compromise with a "wide enough" FOV that is very well corrected and thus relaxing to use. Other budget bins may have better CA control and/or a wider FOV, but they typically sacrifice sweet spot size and off-axis performance (especially excessive pincushion and/or curvature and blurring). One person may subjectively prefer that trade-off; that's what I meant by saying the optics were "a coin-toss based on preference for what types of optical compromises you prefer".

What nit-picks there are not bothersome; it's not perfect to the edge but the fall-off is very gradual, it has minimal pincushion and curvature, it shows some color fringing but it's not excessive. The "totality" of the package is why I like it so much, it's just a very balanced binocular without any glaring weaknesses, it's well built and feels good in the hand, the focus knob is a pleasure, and it will hold its value. While looking at a county record Lesser Sand-Plover this past weekend, I handed it to a friend who owns several alphas and he immediately said, "Wow! These are really nice!" Forget your objective calculations of sweet spot size, THAT is the true test.

Basically, I feel like you get 90% of the Conquest HD's optics and 75% of its build quality for about 35% of the price. Works for me.


Very nice post, sums up my thoughts in a concise way.
 
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