A first binoculars purchase (2 Viewers)

[Gretchen]

For some years I've been using a pair of binoculars that were given to me. I'm now looking at buying a pair that will give me a bit different set of features.

My current ones are Bausch & Lombs 9x26. I love how compact they are, and they've been easy to use. However, I would like to get something which lets in more light because sometimes the B& L view is tough in poor lighting circumstances. I'd also like to have a second pair so when I take friends out I have a pair for them to use.

I thought that going for an 8x42 made the most sense. I went for my first in-hand trial of several models (Lost Creek Shoe Shop for you PA birders). I looked at 10x42 also and feel like the magnification is nice, but the wider view of the 8x is good too. Of all the ones I looked at, I really liked the Zeiss Terra EDs - mostly I was aware of the good view and the nice easy focusing mechanism. The Monarch 7 (at about the extreme of my price range) didn't seem better. (By the way, I wear glasses - fairly strongly short-sighted.)

I feel like I've just gotten started on this project (though I've been reading stuff for a while). I might be happy with the Zeiss, but thought I should do a bit more research, and thought you guys might be able to help. So, a few questions:

1. Focusing mechanism - I really don't like a tight feel (the Leupolds were a no-go for me) - on new bins does this loosen up over time? Do I have to worry that a looser feeling focus will become too loose?
2. The view - I was looking for the clarity at the edges, close focus and brightness of image (it was not too bright of a day, so that was good). Are there other things I should look for?
3. The build - I liked the open bridge of the Leupolds (I think), but there wasn't anything else with that except Swaro's which are not an option. Are there other bins in the $300-400 range that I should consider?
4. Other features - the salesperson mentioned good service from Zeiss, are there other considerations in buying?
5. The type - I've been assuming that I should go for a x42 binocular to increase light and give me something that really differs from what I have now, however, the x32 is smaller and a bit more comfortable to hold. Any opinions on this?
6. The brand - I haven't read a lot about Zeiss and won't have time to do tons of reading - are there any must know aspects of this brand?

Thanks for your ideas! Gretchen

 

[Troubador]

For some years I've been using a pair of binoculars that were given to me. I'm now looking at buying a pair that will give me a bit different set of features.

My current ones are Bausch & Lombs 9x26. I love how compact they are, and they've been easy to use. However, I would like to get something which lets in more light because sometimes the B& L view is tough in poor lighting circumstances. I'd also like to have a second pair so when I take friends out I have a pair for them to use.

I thought that going for an 8x42 made the most sense. I went for my first in-hand trial of several models (Lost Creek Shoe Shop for you PA birders). I looked at 10x42 also and feel like the magnification is nice, but the wider view of the 8x is good too. Of all the ones I looked at, I really liked the Zeiss Terra EDs - mostly I was aware of the good view and the nice easy focusing mechanism. The Monarch 7 (at about the extreme of my price range) didn't seem better. (By the way, I wear glasses - fairly strongly short-sighted.)

I feel like I've just gotten started on this project (though I've been reading stuff for a while). I might be happy with the Zeiss, but thought I should do a bit more research, and thought you guys might be able to help. So, a few questions:

1. Focusing mechanism - I really don't like a tight feel (the Leupolds were a no-go for me) - on new bins does this loosen up over time? Do I have to worry that a looser feeling focus will become too loose?
2. The view - I was looking for the clarity at the edges, close focus and brightness of image (it was not too bright of a day, so that was good). Are there other things I should look for?
3. The build - I liked the open bridge of the Leupolds (I think), but there wasn't anything else with that except Swaro's which are not an option. Are there other bins in the $300-400 range that I should consider?
4. Other features - the salesperson mentioned good service from Zeiss, are there other considerations in buying?
5. The type - I've been assuming that I should go for a x42 binocular to increase light and give me something that really differs from what I have now, however, the x32 is smaller and a bit more comfortable to hold. Any opinions on this?
6. The brand - I haven't read a lot about Zeiss and won't have time to do tons of reading - are there any must know aspects of this brand?

Thanks for your ideas! Gretchen

Pleasure to make your acquaintance Gretchen.

Stand back from your pc or notebook and prepare for loads of advice. Lots of people here give sound advice and at the risk of offending others I would pick out Typo and Frank for help here.

I am a Zeiss enthusiast so you might expect me to recommend the Terra but the main recommendation is that you have handled it and looked through it yourself. I think it is great value for money and several folks here have got one. If you found the view easy to acquire (one or two have reported blackouts with the 42s - thats where you get strange shadow effects if you move the bins from dead plumb centre of your eyes) then you should put it on your short list for further evaluation. Blackouts can be personal to your facial structure.
A 42 will give you better and longer viewing at twilight and in dull and forest conditions, only you can decide whether the weight is worth it.
Good luck and come and see us again and let us know how you get on.

Lee

 

[dwatsonbirder]

If you like the feel of an open hinge model but can't stretch to a Swaro, how about a Zen Ray ED binocular? I think these are the same as the Hawke over here in the UK, and they have gained some very positive reviews. It is also worth seeking out the new Nikon Monarch 8x30, I have heard that this bin works well with glasses, but I haven't checked it out myself (yet). Also there is a whole plethora of used optics, offering amazing performance at a lower price (I never buy new) and it's worth looking to see what is available online. The Zen Ray/Hawke stuff sells for less than half your budget secondhand in the UK, so try a new on first then look for a cheaper used version!
Happy birding.

P.S. Check out the Vanguard Endeavor ED open hinge bin, again not sure on the optics, but with ED glass and open hinge it fits the bill. It's also under $250!

 

[typo]

Gretchen, welcome to this forum.

Reading between the lines it sounds to me like you you are drawn to the size and weight of an 8x32. The Terra is 25oz, the ZenRay/Hawke Daniel mentions is 27oz, whereas many 8x32s are 20oz or less. There is a difference in low light performance, but it's possibly less than you might imagine, something like ten minutes at either end of the day. If you've been carrying more weight than you are comfortable with, you would probably have headed home already.

Lee, thanks for the mention but I strongly suspect this is one for Frank. The US and UK markets are rather different and dual hinge 8x32s at under $350 are definitely his speciality. Frank's recent reviews are a very good place to start and he probably has a few more up his sleeve.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=269560

David

P.S. If you are uncertain whether an 8x or 10x suites you best there is one Frank might have missed, the Pentax 9x32 DFC BC. Dual hinge, 17.6oz, good colour, reasonable FOV and pretty sharp for under $300.... but not quite as bright as an 8x though.

 

[Theorist]

For some years I've been using a pair of binoculars that were given to me. I'm now looking at buying a pair that will give me a bit different set of features.

My current ones are Bausch & Lombs 9x26. I love how compact they are, and they've been easy to use. However, I would like to get something which lets in more light because sometimes the B& L view is tough in poor lighting circumstances. I'd also like to have a second pair so when I take friends out I have a pair for them to use.

I thought that going for an 8x42 made the most sense. I went for my first in-hand trial of several models (Lost Creek Shoe Shop for you PA birders). I looked at 10x42 also and feel like the magnification is nice, but the wider view of the 8x is good too. Of all the ones I looked at, I really liked the Zeiss Terra EDs - mostly I was aware of the good view and the nice easy focusing mechanism. The Monarch 7 (at about the extreme of my price range) didn't seem better. (By the way, I wear glasses - fairly strongly short-sighted.)

I feel like I've just gotten started on this project (though I've been reading stuff for a while). I might be happy with the Zeiss, but thought I should do a bit more research, and thought you guys might be able to help. So, a few questions:

1. Focusing mechanism - I really don't like a tight feel (the Leupolds were a no-go for me) - on new bins does this loosen up over time? Do I have to worry that a looser feeling focus will become too loose?
2. The view - I was looking for the clarity at the edges, close focus and brightness of image (it was not too bright of a day, so that was good). Are there other things I should look for?
3. The build - I liked the open bridge of the Leupolds (I think), but there wasn't anything else with that except Swaro's which are not an option. Are there other bins in the $300-400 range that I should consider?
4. Other features - the salesperson mentioned good service from Zeiss, are there other considerations in buying?
5. The type - I've been assuming that I should go for a x42 binocular to increase light and give me something that really differs from what I have now, however, the x32 is smaller and a bit more comfortable to hold. Any opinions on this?
6. The brand - I haven't read a lot about Zeiss and won't have time to do tons of reading - are there any must know aspects of this brand?

Thanks for your ideas! Gretchen

Consider the Zen-Ray ED3 8x43. Although I cannot personally vouch for them as I haven't received mine yet, they appear to be an excellent choice at the price point. At $318 with a NO-FAULT lifetime warranty they are a strong contender. I do have experience with the Vanguard Endeavor ED in 10x, and I found the chromatic aberration control to be abysmal.

 

[CSG]

Hi Gretchen, I think the 8x42 Monarch 7 is better optically than the Terra 8x42 but not by a lot. I had some 10x42 Monarch 7's but ended up returning them and I still have my 8x42 Terras. I like the Terra line for the price. Great handling and focuser and very good optics with a decent amount of sharpness and decent sweet spot. But I think, optically, the Nikons are better (as they should be considering they were made to sell for $100 more). Only you can decide which is better for you.

I've had great customer service from both Zeiss and Nikon.

 

[FrankD]

Gretchen,

I can offer some suggestions and support them with my line of thinking but I think the others have already given you some very good advice. To start off with I see that you mentioned a Leupold model part way through your criteria but I didn't see you mention the model when you described your experiences at the Lost Creek Shoe Shop. I am guessing Mojave?

So, you basically seem to like either an 8x42 or an 8x32 open bridge design in the $300-$400 range. Except for the open-bridge aspect the Zeiss Terra you mentioned would seem to fit the bill nicely. I had one for evaluation purposes for a bit and left some comments in the Zeiss Terra ED thread in the Zeiss forum. Overall I liked it and can see its appeal for many. My particular unit had a bit of an issue with the location of the sweet spot but other than that it was a very nice binocular. My personal preferences are for an average to slow focusing speed with an appropriate level of focusing tension. The Zeiss's focusing speed was a little fast for my preferences but it isn't something I couldn't become accustomed to. I just prefer the greater sense of control that a slower focusing mechanism allows for. Either that or increased focusing tension along with the faster focusing speed.

Let me list a few models below that I think might suit you based on your preferences:

Zen Ray ED2 7x36 : Tops my list as it was recently redesigned by the company with several notable additions. It has the updated ED3 lens coatings plus a redesigned eyecup design to allow for greater eye relief. I never had a problem with the quality of coatings on the original ED2 but the ED3's coatings offer a more neutral color representation and better apparent brightness. In addition I always wondered what it would be like to have a few more millimeters of usable eye relief on that model as I couldn't quite see the full field of view. The redesign addresses that. It falls within your price range, has an open bridge design, a super-wide field of view and uses ED glass in the objective lens design. Hawke also has the Frontier ED series which are basically the same binocular as the ZR ED2 series. They have an 8x36 version which may fit your needs better if you prefer the 8x magnification.

Opticron ED-X 8x42: Fits in your price range, has ED glass in the objectives, utilizes a "short bridge" design which gives much the same feel as the open bridge and is lightweight for an 8x42 binocular. I have tried this model on several occasions at various optics shows and was impressed with the handling and the overall brightness. I believe Lost Creek Shoe Shop either is or is about to be an Opticron dealer.

Bresser Everest ED 8x42: Open bridge design, ED glass in the objectives, faster focusing mechanism, weighs about 24 ounces and priced actually under your $300 price point. I did a review of this model this past year. You can find it here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=252458&highlight=Bresser+Everest

It and its "brothers" the Alpen Wings ED and the Celestron Granite meet many of your criteria as mentioned. Both the Alpen and Celestron and priced in your price range. Celestron also makes the Granite line in the 7x33 configuration which might also suit your needs.

Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 8x42 or 8x36- ED glass objectives, lightweight for a full-sized binocular. Traditional hinge design but still relatively ergonomic. Priced well under your $300 minimum price point.

Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 - Typo mentioned the Pentax 9x32. The Pentax and the Sightron are basically the same binocular under different labels and a 1x different in magnification. Tons of information has been posted on the Sightron. My original review thread is a good place to start....

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=211793&highlight=Sightron

Basically it meets all of your criteria for handling, weight, etc... plus the image is particularly bright for an 8x32 binocular. I use mine daily and it never disappoints. No ED glass in the design but color fringing is still wonderfully well controlled within the sweet spot (a fairly large sweet spot at that).

Just a few that I could think of off the top of my head. Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[eitanaltman]

Most of the top options have been mentioned already. I would suggest ordering a couple of finalists and comparing them at home. Nothing matters more than personal "fit".

The Sightron 8x32 checks a lot of boxes but my only concern is the stated preference for the light fast focuser of the Terra. I never minded the focuser on the Sightron but it's definitely not light and fast.

This is actually one area that Nikon Monarchs shine. They are always compact and ergonomic with quick, smooth focus action. Nikon knows how to make a good focus knob.

I have a sneaky feeling the new Monarch 7 8x30 is going to be the ticket.

 

[brocknroller]

Gretchen,

I can't believe that someone from Minnesota has visited the Lost Creek Shoe Shop and I haven't, and I'm only about 70 miles away, don't cha know? I followed your "My Location" link to China. Is that where you are now? If you get to Hong Kong, you could buy a black body 8x30 EII. Beats any roof in the same price range, don't cha know?

I'm not just saying that because I'm selling one, I always highly recommend the EII and SE series.

Brock

 

[Gretchen]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! I knew that getting advice here wouldn't be too hard :-O

I do like a "fast" focus - maybe just what I'm used to, or maybe I'm lazy. I wonder if anyone could speak to the question of whether the focus tends to change much with use?

 

[CSG]

Well, if you like faster focus, the Ziess Terra's might be for you even if not open bridge. I like mine quite well and they're the ones I keep in my vehicle following CSG's Rule #1: Always have binoculars.

(Actually, rule #1 is: always carry a knife but that wouldn't play as well on this forum...).

 

[Troubador]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! I knew that getting advice here wouldn't be too hard :-O

I do like a "fast" focus - maybe just what I'm used to, or maybe I'm lazy. I wonder if anyone could speak to the question of whether the focus tends to change much with use?

Gretch

Its hard to lay down rules about this:

My Zeiss Victory Compact began life with a really stiff focus (its only got a small diameter wheel) but over a couple of months its eased off nicely.

My FL 8x32 is much the same now as when I bought it and so was my FL8x42 at the end of 8 years.

My HT 8x42 hasn't changed over the relatively few months I have had it either.

I don't think focus actions are like leather shoes that pinch when you first buy them and then mould themselves to your feet the first 5/6 times you wear them, but my experience with the Victory Compact shows changes can occur.

Lee

 

[Gretchen]

I can't believe that someone from Minnesota has visited the Lost Creek Shoe Shop and I haven't, and I'm only about 70 miles away, don't cha know?

I do get around - not in China currently, but looking forward to getting back! Prefer to get bins in a shop where I can try them in hand and think (and discuss in English).

Most of the top options have been mentioned already. I would suggest ordering a couple of finalists and comparing them at home. Nothing matters more than personal "fit".

Oh, how painful... I'm hoping not to take this road. (See note above.)

I have a sneaky feeling the new Monarch 7 8x30 is going to be the ticket.

I don't think I've looked at these, so should have a look. I expected to like the Monarchs, and will look again at them, including this size. But doesn't this sound a lot like my 9x26 in terms of offering a similar view? (though possibly better optics)

To start off with I see that you mentioned a Leupold model part way through your criteria but I didn't see you mention the model when you described your experiences at the Lost Creek Shoe Shop. I am guessing Mojave?

Yep, I'm pretty sure, though honestly, I haven't paid enough attention to models :eek!:

I had one for evaluation purposes for a bit and left some comments in the Zeiss Terra ED thread in the Zeiss forum.

Thanks - I found this thread after I posted! Very helpful.

Let me list a few models below that I think might suit you based on your preferences ...
Just a few that I could think of off the top of my head. Hope this helps somewhat.

Thanks for the detailed ideas. I might have had the Opticron in hand, but I'm not sure (or maybe the Lost Creek SS didn't have this configuration). I'll see what else I can get my hands on of the choices you mentioned, and see how I might want to weigh the open bridge against other features.

By the way, sorry to be so slow on all this, but what is ED glass? (Is it better coatings or ?)

Thanks also CGS, Troubador, Dwatson, and David for useful answers and suggestions.

I do sort of feel like I should try out the Zen-Rays - is there anyone who carries them - or are they only through the mail?

 

[ceasar]

"I have a sneaky feeling the new Monarch 7 8x30 is going to be the ticket." (Posted by Eitanaltman.)

"I don't think I've looked at these, so should have a look. I expected to like the Monarchs, and will look again at them, including this size. But doesn't this sound a lot like my 9x26 in terms of offering a similar view? (though possibly better optics)"


Gretchen,

The view in the 8 x 30 will be much bigger. Your 9 x 26 is essentially a compact binocular.


The Nikon Monarch 7 8 x 30 has a FOV of 430' @ 1000 yards. It is the widest in the 30/32mm class. It also has ED glass and dielectric prisms. It's ER is 15.1mm and it weighs only 15 ounces.

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/Nikon-Products/Binoculars/7579/MONARCH-7-8x30.html

This is the first time Nikon has offered a low priced roof prism binocular in the 30/32mm range. They are projected to be available in the USA by the end of this month. No one has been able to review one here yet. They are now being sold in England.

In the past Nikon's 32mm roof prism binoculars were expensive. 8/10 x 32 LX Ls which cost over $1000.00 and the 8/10 x 32 EDGs which cost close to $2000.00.

You may want to wait to try one of these new 8 x 30s. If there isn't too much of a fall off at the edge of the view these could be excellent binoculars for their price. In twilight conditions they will not be as bright as 8 x 42 binoculars of course.

Bob

 

[typo]

Gretchen,

I tried a pre-production Monarch 7, 8x and 10x30 along side the x42s and the Monarch 5. The 8x30 was easily the most desirable of the group. There was some field curvature and high level of distortion at the edges, but the sweet spot was the largest and easily the sharpest. For essentially a cheap compact, an excellent view IMO, and the handling was very good too.

But that one I tried was probably cherry picked for the show. The only comparative report so far is from crinklystarfish on the 10x and his comments on sharpness make me much more wary. Hopefully other reports will be along soon.
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2868527&postcount=69

Note that the ER is 15.1mm. I wear glasses and it was good for me, but that's too short for many.

David

P.S. I'm sure you know that 'bending' light though glass will split white light into the colours of the rainbow. In a binocular it shows up as colour fringing on high contrast edges. Designers use different glasses to minimise this. Extraordinary Dispersion (ED) glass is relatively new to binoculars and currently finding it's way into cheaper models. Models with ED glass tend to have better fringing control, but it's a bit of a lottery on effectiveness at the cheaper end.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Hi Gretchen!

Lots of good advice so far.

For myself, I always place a fairly high value on a bin having good ED glass, as I am very susceptible to CA (Chromatic Aberration = colour fringing, and general 'mush'), which the ED glass (along with good design) does a fair job of taming. Wearing specs that would do Mr. Magoo proud, I also find that eye/ bin alignment is fairly critical in not exacerbating this. :cat:

I also prefer a smaller dimensioned x42 bin, rather than going down to the x32 class. This is for the added twilight factor, and brightness in practice, and ease of eye placement. The one thing that the x30/32 class do have going for them is the "virtual effect" of "stopping down" your own eye (exit<->pupil diameter) to use only the sharpest portion, at the sacrifice of some brightness. I suspect that much of the raving about the sharpness of x30/32 optics is down to this "effect"...... Wearing glasses to correct any vision deficiencies you should get just as sharp a view in practice through the x42's and much brighter during cloudy periods in the shadows, etc.

I am using a Zen-Ray ED3 8x43 which is pretty good bang for the buck, and though not a strict lightweight - feels quite light in the hand due to the open bridge design. It also has a fast Clockwise focuser with large knurled metal alloy focusing wheel which I like.

Other x42's which may fit the bill for you are the lightweight and compact Nikon Monarch 7, or the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD.

The optics will be within cooee of each other, and I would really go on "fit and feel" for your eyes /hands.

I believe that the Nikon 7 has come down in price recently to match the Zen ballpark better, the Zeiss Terra ED has also dropped in price since introduction, the Bushie always seems to have a better deal you can sniff out, and even the Vanguard Endeavour ED has been offerred for some amazingly low prices recently (check out the bargains thread).

I'm sure you'll find a nice, light, compact x42, that's within budget, amongst that lot somewhere. The Zen ED3 seems to be a bit of a brightness, CA control king, whereas the Zeiss Terra, and the Bushie have been noted for their excellent glare control. Be aware, that some units of just about all brands have quoibles and variability at this price point - so it's best to "hands-on" your actual purchase unit, or deal with a reputable supplier with solid returns and warranty support.

Good luck!



Chosun :gh:

 

[mooreorless]

Hi Gretchen, I see you did stop at Lost Creek Shoe Shop. It has been quite a while for me to visit this shop. Were you in State College?

 

[Jaymie Arnold]

I'd agree with Chosun, you are going to get a lot more versatility out of a binocular with 42mm objective lenses than 32mm. Fortunately there are several very decent 8 x 42 binoculars that don't weigh much more than the popular 8 x 32 configurations either. Several folks have already mentioned the Zeiss Terra ED 8 x 42, which is barely over a pound and half and is definitely worth a look at $350. The Nikon Monarch 7 8 x 42 is a little lighter and has a larger field of view than the Zeiss and is currently only going for $380 since they have a $100 rebate going. The other one I would take a look at is the Celestron Trailseeker 8 x 42. At only $240 this one is easily the best deal, weight is about the same as the other two mentioned above and it has a field of view slightly larger than the Monarch's. I found it's image quality to be excellent, about on par with the other two. All three of these binoculars scored very well in the recent Cornell Review of birding binoculars (the Trailseeker is essentially the Nature DX but with the addition of dielectric prism coatings). Good luck, hope you find something you really enjoy!

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Hi Gretchen,
If FOV is of importance together with good handling properties en good optical performance than it may be worthwile also to consider the Kite Lynx 8x30HD with an FOV of 151m/1000 m. To my knowledge one of the largest FOV of all 30 mm roof binoculars. The price is a little higher than that of the Nikon Monarch 8x30, but that has to do with some additional qualities of the Kite Lynx like a scratch resistant coating on the outer lenses, metal eyecups and a more enforced bincular body (the Monarch and the Lynx are produced by the same Japanese company).
Gijs

 

[A2GG]

Oh, how painful... I'm hoping not to take this road. (See note above.)

I always felt the same way. It's a pain in the neck ordering the bins online and returning them if you don't like them. I did it twice and don't really want to do that again if I can avoid it. The problem where I live is that there aren't many places to go to try the bins out in person. If you can test a handful of bins at the local store you mentioned , then you should be able find a nice one that 'fits' you well. It sounds like that store has a decent collection there to choose from. If there is another store relatively close then check that out too. But, if you are really fixated on a model (like the ZR) that is not found in the store then you may have to order it just to satisfy your curiosity. Just don't get caught up in wanting to try all of the top bins mentioned on this forum. You'll drive yourself mad LOL. Pick a nice one in person at the store if you can, don't look back and enjoy it with no regrets. That's my 2 cents.