Death Of The Alpha? (1 Viewer)

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I have a curious feeling that none of us are real. Like the Chinese Emperor who dreamt he was a butterfly, we'll all wake up one day to find that we are really binoculars imagining we're people.

Interesting philosophy.

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis old buddy, Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. Mr. Deull's most famous attributed utterance is that "everything that can be invented has been invented." In other words there was no need to do any more research.

Probably when lens multi-coating was invented some folks thought that there were no more improvements left to make, then along came phase coatings, dielectic coatings, hydrophobic coatings, even flat fields, and don't forget eye relief big enough for glasses wearers and close focus distances great for many nature observers..... And every time you think that there is nothing left to invent in bins tech, just remember Mr Duell.

I am sure the middle price bins sector will develop futher, perhaps Tract will be able to get enough cash together to buy another small batch of 10x42s, and even more interesting is the thought that if this middle ground is so attractive from a business point of view, when will the next new company set up in competition with Tract and Maven and where will it be? USA or Europe or both?

Lee

I just think the next MAJOR technological advancements in optics will be digital.

 

[Troubador]

I just think the next MAJOR technological advancements in optics will be digital.

Digital?

Until way after you and me are dead this 'advance' might be different but it won't be MAJOR and won't affect anyone who buys alphas for a long, long, long time. Image stabilisation has been around long enough to make a big splash and has had the benefit of being boosted by the application of this tech in cameras and camera lenses, but has it revolutionised the world of sports optics? Nope.

Sorry son, you are right to praise the middle brands for their increase in quality at a great price, and I do the same, but folks who buy alphas aren't looking for the best value for money and never have been. They just want the best.

Lee

 

[jgraider]

Digital?


Sorry son, you are right to praise the middle brands for their increase in quality at a great price, and I do the same, but folks who buy alphas aren't looking for the best value for money and never have been. They just want the best.

Lee

That's it in a nutshell Lee, plain and simple. I will stick with this though, people who think they can see "things" through a Swaro SV (etc......) that they cannot see equally as well with a Meopta Meostar HD, Conquest HD, Toric Hd, Razor HD, Kowa Genesis, etc are kidding themselves.

 

[Troubador]

That's it in a nutshell Lee, plain and simple. I will stick with this though, people who think they can see "things" through a Swaro SV (etc......) that they cannot see equally as well with a Meopta Meostar HD, Conquest HD, Toric Hd, Razor HD, Kowa Genesis, etc are kidding themselves.

JG

I love my SFs and HTs to bits but since I love Conquest HD, Meopta MeoStar and Kowa Genesis too, you may well be right.

However there are a couple of things that help SF and HT to stand clear of these (better value) models: HT's light transmission and SF's field of view. Other folks might equally mention Swaro's flat field or Leica's warmth of view. How much value any one of us puts on these is a personal one.

Lee

 

[gunut]

rich people will always pay for alphas because they can....and some will buy them because rich people buy them??...so they will always be around...but don't look for any major optical improvements in the foreseeable future.....

 

[Troubador]

rich people will always pay for alphas because they can....and some will buy them because rich people buy them??...so they will always be around...but don't look for any major optical improvements in the foreseeable future.....

I foresee many unforseeable improvements coming within an indeterminate timesecale..... :-O

Lee

 

[james holdsworth]

That's it in a nutshell Lee, plain and simple. I will stick with this though, people who think they can see "things" through a Swaro SV (etc......) that they cannot see equally as well with a Meopta Meostar HD, Conquest HD, Toric Hd, Razor HD, Kowa Genesis, etc are kidding themselves.

I don't really follow this line at all. You could find ''regular'' folks that think a $25.00 Walmart binocular is ''just as good'' or ''all they need'' too. It sure doesn't stop at the Maven / Tract pricepoint. In fact, given the pricing of [those], I would venture that 99% of people would say they are way too expensive for just ''lookin' at birds.''

 

[jgraider]

Well, I'm not going to pretend to know what "regular" folks think. Going by what I know for an absolute fact is that you will not see things through "alpha" glass that you cannot see equally as well as those mentioned. The reason I mentioned those is because I've had alphas and these side by side, on tripods, in the field for days on end. My SV's have been tested against my Toric's and my buddy's Conquest HD, SLC WB, and Zeiss classic for over 33 days since November 5 this year. That's why I said what I've said, as myself and at least 12 other people who have been present can attest to it.

For probably 90% of the "regular" folks, alphas are a waste of money.

 

[Torview]

That's it in a nutshell Lee, plain and simple. I will stick with this though, people who think they can see "things" through a Swaro SV (etc......) that they cannot see equally as well with a Meopta Meostar HD, Conquest HD, Toric Hd, Razor HD, Kowa Genesis, etc are kidding themselves.

I also have a Meopta B1 and SV, I also have tripod mounted them side by side, me, I`d turn it around, I see things in the Meopta I don`t see in the SV, its what I don`t see that makes the SV clearly superior.

Anybody who thinks they are the same, well congrats, you just saved yourself a heap of money.

 

[james holdsworth]

Well, I'm not going to pretend to know what "regular" folks think. Going by what I know for an absolute fact is that you will not see things through "alpha" glass that you cannot see equally as well as those mentioned. The reason I mentioned those is because I've had alphas and these side by side, on tripods, in the field for days on end. My SV's have been tested against my Toric's and my buddy's Conquest HD, SLC WB, and Zeiss classic for over 33 days since November 5 this year. That's why I said what I've said, as myself and at least 12 other people who have been present can attest to it.

For probably 90% of the "regular" folks, alphas are a waste of money.

As is a $500.00 Tract or $1000.00 Maven..........slippery slope.

Seriously, this is so old - the whole 'what things are really worth' argument and it has no answer, just opinions. Kinda like arguing about whether Brussel Sprouts taste good - answer - NO! Contrary opinions guaranteed.

 

[james holdsworth]

You know - as this thread tends to be about alpha-shaming, and cost-shaming, I find it ironic that just about the only person on these boards to go out of their way to shame owners of ''non-alphas'' was Dennis himself, with his over-the-top Alpha or nothing threads. That is, until he saw the light and dumped them...

There are very few to almost none here that denigrate anyone based on choosing a lower cost optic, but the alpha-shaming is pretty prevalent.

 

[PhilR.]

Kinda like arguing about whether Brussel Sprouts taste good - answer - NO! Contrary opinions guaranteed.

Well -- you won't get a contrary opinion from me about Brussel sprouts, that's for sure.....

 

[PeterPS]

Originally Posted by james holdsworth
Kinda like arguing about whether Brussel Sprouts taste good - answer - NO! Contrary opinions guaranteed.

Well -- you won't get a contrary opinion from me about Brussel sprouts, that's for sure.....
PhilR.

My answer is also a big NO. Eventually something interesting has sprouted out of this thread.....

 

[Theo98]

Kinda like arguing about whether Brussel Sprouts taste good - answer - NO! Contrary opinions guaranteed.

Till 10 years ago, my answer would have been Heck NO. However, I can now enjoy Garden Fresh BS, seared in a pan of cayenne chile pepper fused olive oil, fresh roasted garlic and iron skillet basted sweet onions in real butter, all lightly covered in freshly grated Romano\Parmesan cheese and shared with a full bodied red wine...Yummy! :king:

Ted

 

[Theo98]

For probably 90% of the "regular" folks, alphas are a waste of money.

Agree JG!

IMHO, if you Can See the Difference in top-tier optics (Alphas), but prefer "cost-effective" mid-tier options that offer 95%+ performance for 50%+ less money, it certainly is a very viable option for anyone...just do it and as you stated, Most have! If you Can't see differences, I'd Certainly not waste my hard earned bucks, just go the "better value" route! Now, if you Can See the 5% (or less) improvements and feel it is worth it (to you) in purchasing an "Alpha" top-tier instrument, do it!

Certainly, there is more than just "optical prowess" in making choices...maybe other techno developments will change it all (from bottom to top). But overall, for the past 40 years price\performance differences between a good mid-tier and top-tier binocular hasn't "Killed the Alphas" yet...I truly feel it won't in the future!!

Ted

 

[Pinewood]

Till 10 years ago, my answer would have been Heck NO. However, I can now enjoy Garden Fresh BS, seared in a pan of cayenne chile pepper fused olive oil, fresh roasted garlic and iron skillet basted sweet onions in real butter, all lightly covered in freshly grated Romano\Parmesan cheese and shared with a full bodied red wine...Yummy! :king:

Ted

Ted,

At the cost of going completely off topic: it sounds wonderful to me. Indeed your recipe has more value than many post on this thread.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi: :t:

 

[jgraider]

Anybody who thinks they are the same, well congrats, you just saved yourself a heap of money.

Quit putting words in my mouth. I own alphas, I own a Tract. I never said the view was the same, I said you couldn't see things through one that you could not see equally as well with the other. I never claimed the images identical.

 

[jgraider]

I also have a Meopta B1 and SV, I also have tripod mounted them side by side, me, I`d turn it around, I see things in the Meopta I don`t see in the SV, its what I don`t see that makes the SV clearly superior.

I'll turn it around as well. The Toric handles stray light and glare in a far superior manner than the 8x32 SV does. No contest, and it is probably the best I have ever seen at any price in doing so.

 

[Sancho]

Kinda like arguing about whether Brussel Sprouts taste good - answer - NO! Contrary opinions guaranteed.

I won't tolerate a single bad word about Brussels Sprouts. They are among the Alphas of green vegetables, along with Asparagus and Rocket Leaves. Oddly, in my youth I hated them, which shows I've flipped and flopped on my Greens too.