Oriental Honey Buzzard orientalis or torquatus? Penang Island, Malaysia (1 Viewer)

[dixonlau]

Location: Penang Hill (hill top), Malaysia
Date: 12-Feb, around 4pm

Only backside view available.

Hi,

I'm wonder if this individual Oriental Honey Buzzard is Pernis ptilorhynchus ssp. orientalis or torquatus. Based on current feedback from fellow birders, this should be female orientalis with yellow iris and lack of crest. If this is the case, is there any other features that can differentiate between orientalis vs torquatus particularly when in-flight which the crest rarely visible.

I also noticed this individual face/head lack of greyish which visible in majority orientalis, the head seem slightly bigger or bulkier and the neck pattern also can't seem to find match of orientalis in Thailand and Taiwan in reported cases in inaturalist.

Any feedback are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Full body view:

Close up view:

 

[dixonlau]

Confirmed orientalis in inaturalist, and it should be female.

My question still remains what features we can refer to if the crest not visible esp in-flight for torquatus?

Currently, I'm could only assume (based on what I've recorded and sample I could find) for torquatus, possible darker and or contrasty plumage, thick white barring on tail perhaps. Can't be sure if these can be use as solid reference.

Any further input still very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[NickBrown]

Confirmed orientalis in inaturalist, and it should be female.

My question still remains what features we can refer to if the crest not visible esp in-flight for torquatus?

Currently, I'm could only assume (based on what I've recorded and sample I could find) for torquatus, possible darker and or contrasty plumage, thick white barring on tail perhaps. Can't be sure if these can be use as solid reference.

Any further input still very much appreciated. Thanks.

Hi, not sure if you've already seen this but here's an article on flight ID of the different subspecies: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._in_Thailand_and_Malaysia#fullTextFileContent

 

[dixonlau]

Hi, not sure if you've already seen this but here's an article on flight ID of the different subspecies: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._in_Thailand_and_Malaysia#fullTextFileContent

That is very helpful Nick. Thanks.