• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

HBW Alive transition (1 Viewer)

mb1848 said:
The first user Brisson did not use it as a genus?
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/Genera/C/c01985a.jpg .
The next user cited it Cyanecula Briss. before the ruling only Brisson's genus names were OK.
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/Genera/C/c01986a.jpg .
Click to expand...
This is a very common situation.
The first author who used the name as generic (or subgeneric), in a published work applying the principles of binominal nomenclature and in a way that fulfilled the current requirements for availability, made this name available. Brisson did not; but Brehm did (at least in 1831; the status of the names in his 1828-30 lists of German birds published in Isis is disputed, not because any name would be attributed to Brisson there, but because Brehm did not describe the birds or cite an authority for the included species-group names, which can thus all be deemed unidentifiable, potentially making all the new generic names introduced there, Cyanecula included, nomina nuda); by so doing he became the author of the name. It is irrelevant that he attributed the name to an earlier author who had failed to do it before him.

(I'm not sure this belongs in the present thread, though ;))
 
Last edited:
Calalp said:
Brisson's "CYANECULA" ... and "CYANECULA GIBRALTARIENSIS"; here and here.
Click to expand...
Brisson is not binominal at all.
"Cyanecula" in the first link is not a generic name, it's an unavailable one-word species name, proposed outside of the Linnaean system; "Cyanecula gibraltariensis" is the same name with a modifier, not a binomen.
These two species are both placed by Brisson in his genus #XL -- Genus Ficedulae / "Le genre du Becfigue", where "Ficedulae" is the genitive of Ficedula, which is another one-word species name -- in addition to being deemed available as a genus name from [here] (basically because the Commission once said that the "generic" names in the Latin pages of the table at the start of Volume I of Brisson's work had to be treated as available).
 
Thanks everyone, very interesting. Sorry for hijacking thread. Back to HBW. I am strongly contemplating paying the $49. Current price of one bottle of hand sanitizer. To show Cornell that the average American birdwatcher is interested in taxonomy and nomenclature and real science not bigfoot. Also to get standing to sue.
 
It seems that ornithology is the only discipline where you have to pay to access knowledge. Even scorpion files, amphibian species of the world or reptile database, are accessible for free. Why? Honestly, I find it unfair

Fortunately, there are IOC and Tif
 
Last edited:
Mike Earp said:
See ICZN Opinion 37 and ICZN Direction 105. This is what Laurent was referring to when he said earlier that "the Commission once said that the "generic" names in the Latin pages of the table at the start of Volume I of Brisson's [1760] work had to be treated as available".
Click to expand...
Thanks Mike -- though I would add that Opinion 37 as such may be a bit misleading, as it claimed that Brisson's generic names were available because he applied "binary" nomenclature, which was perceived at that time as distinct from "binominal". Subsequently, this view was revised, "binary" being ruled synonymous with "binominal": it was then concluded that Brisson's work did not make the grade, and Opinion 37 was cancelled: [here], §b.
But, to avoid disruptive changes, his generic names were then ruled available nevertheless, despite they did not meet the conditions (same link, preceding §, starting on the preceding page).

(The type fixations that are accepted for most of these names are pretty much of a nightmare, if assessed under the ICZN -- this being largely due the valid species names not being available in the work that established the generic names. The consequence being that Brisson's own species can in fact not be the types of his genera.)
 
"HBW Alive: A Message from Josep del Hoyo from Lynx Edicions" ... even if a bit old (from January 23, 2020) but still worth to read ;)

here

However; no certain date (of the closure of HBW Alive) mentioned ...

Anyone know?

/B
 
Closure getting closer

Today's HBW Alive Key has the following (sad) message (see attached .jpg):
HBW Alive will end its services on 11 May 2020 ...
Click to expand...
End of an Era, truly a bit sad ... even if we all knew this day was coming.

:-C

Björn
 

Attachments

  • Namnlöst.jpg
    Namnlöst.jpg
    130.5 KB · Views: 18
"... has been incorporated", but where?

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I cannot find the Etymology parts incorporated anywhere ... ?

On Cornell's Bird of the World website, on the page For HBW Subscribers (here), below the heading Newly released features, we find the following (somewhat disheartening/disappointing) notification:
  • [...]
  • • Etymology of scientific bird names from James A. Jobling’s book, “Dictionary of scientific bird names” – expected fall/winter 2020
  • [...]
Click to expand...

Thus, maybe it's just a case of an error in grammatical tense?

Either way; hopefully they will use the improved, continuously, frequently updated HBW Alive Key, and not the Book itself, from 2010 (even if ever so good, far better than most).

Otherwise much of our struggles here on the Bird Name Etymology subforum (with various Key entries, during the last five years, i.e. since the Key was added to the HBW Alive itself), will be all undone (for future users of Bird of the World). And that would, to me, be even more disappointing ... surely this cannot be the case?

We'll see.

/B

PS. James, please enlighten us. Also on the question; will the incorporated Etymology of scientific bird names still be free (with access to all)?
 
The goal is to transfer the contents of the HBWAlive Key from Lynx Edicions to the Cornell BoW site, where it can be visited free of charge. However, I am still waiting for confirmation of accessibility before authorising the transfer (there are some other minor matters which can be easily overcome), and the thrice-accursed c-virus has now interfered with negotiations. There will doubtless be a hiatus until the autumn, or fall as our cousins over the pond term it, and I regret being unable to shed further light on the matter at present. As well as my antecedent Dictionaries I still have the Key in MS, and will keep that updated as necessary. Thank you all for your patience and enthusiasm. Stay safe and well.
 
James Jobling said:
The goal is to transfer the contents of the HBWAlive Key from Lynx Edicions to the Cornell BoW site, where it can be visited free of charge. However, I am still waiting for confirmation of accessibility before authorising the transfer (there are some other minor matters which can be easily overcome), and the thrice-accursed c-virus has now interfered with negotiations. There will doubtless be a hiatus until the autumn, or fall as our cousins over the pond term it, and I regret being unable to shed further light on the matter at present. As well as my antecedent Dictionaries I still have the Key in MS, and will keep that updated as necessary. Thank you all for your patience and enthusiasm. Stay safe and well.
Click to expand...

James,

I love the simple, practical layout of the HBW pages and ease of navigation. Would be great to enable a continuity of that same, proven format, will you have any influence over that?
 
Andy,
You are right. HBWAlive is certainly a joy to work with and easy to navigate, and my fervent wish is for continuity. Your comments, and others on BirdForum, will surely focus minds. If agreement is reached, I will have influence over the Key and its contents, but not, alas, over the taxonomy and nomenclature of Cornell's BoW (this is one of the "minor" matters referred to in my last entry). Much work has still to be done, although I understand that Cornell hope to replicate Lynx's processes with regard to the Key. I am waiting to hear from Cornell's counsel/legal department, but, like us, they are suffering from the impact of the Corvus albus (Corvus corvid 19 in the Illustrated Checklist) (one of the more printable synonyms for the c-virus that doesn't involve bats and pangolins!)
 
Warning! This thread is more than 4 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

Taphrospilus
Minor on Lamprolia klinesmithi Ramsay, EP 1876 and others
Replies
5
Views
818
Björn Bergenholtz
Björn Bergenholtz
Björn Bergenholtz
Merriam X 2 ... and their Birds
Replies
0
Views
334
Björn Bergenholtz
Björn Bergenholtz
Taphrospilus
Accipiter superciliosus fontainieri Bonaparte, 1853
Replies
15
Views
1K
Taphrospilus
Taphrospilus
Taphrospilus
Dacelo gaudichaud
Replies
9
Views
1K
l_raty
l_raty
Taphrospilus
Ornismya paulinae Boissoneau 1839
Replies
17
Views
848
James Jobling
J

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top