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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Yorkshire Redpolls (1 Viewer)

Presumably pic 1 is arctic....so many of my birds have given an 'impression' of this this winter. Luv 'em,,,,will one day know them inside out. For some strange reason...they have really inspired me!!

Paul

Hi again

You are not alone Paul, redpolls have inspired me too... in fact I have become somewhat obsessed. This winter has been a good opportunity to re-learn all of that forgotten info from the last 96 invasion.... and more !!

Yep pic 1 proves a point quite well, a VERY pale bird indeed, and as a result a very plain headed appearance too !

Can mealys be this pale ? Yes they can....... look at the birds structure, that long spikey bill (typically mealy) and red (not pink) in the breast, and it’s likely as this bird wears it's going to get redder !

Here's another pic of the same bird in a different posture, with breast feathers more ruffled, revealing a bit more red underneath.

If this was a male arctic showing that extent of pink you would expect a softer pink flush, I guess you would also expect it to be an adult male, and therefore show little or no flank streaking (and they would be fairly fine streaks too), this bird has quite obvious bold and diffuse flank streaks, again pointing towards mealy.

If it helps anymore this bird had a large white rump with a bit of a red flush on the lower half near the uppertail coverts, and it’s UTCs showed 1 fairly broad arrow shaped streak (again typically mealy).

I think the 2 key things that can really help when identifying difficult birds is being able to age them, and then being careful not to fall into the trap of focussing on 1 feature (such as an obvious white rump for example). A good combination of features is always required, not every bird will be perfect tho, and not every bird will be do-able.

Hope this helps rather than confuses ?!
 

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Hopefully there will be some later - these and details are now on my blog

Hi Andy
Seen photos on blog, surely not enough to convince county recorder???There seems to have been immediate acceptance of this bird, and I would be delighted if its accepted, but surely there has to be more conclusive evidence??

Sorry, don't want to sound like sour grapes,thats really not the case,but my birds have had intense grilling, with at times excellant photos, and i'm happy that all mine have been mealy(well except maybe one!!).
Are there photos showing all features, perhaps on another site??

Paul
 
Hi Andy
Seen photos on blog, surely not enough to convince county recorder???There seems to have been immediate acceptance of this bird, and I would be delighted if its accepted, but surely there has to be more conclusive evidence??

Sorry, don't want to sound like sour grapes,thats really not the case,but my birds have had intense grilling, with at times excellant photos, and i'm happy that all mine have been mealy(well except maybe one!!).
Are there photos showing all features, perhaps on another site??

Paul
I have to say that I agree. It looks okay on some features, but the bill and bib seems on the large side. I'd want better photos/field notes/sketches before falling either side of the fence.
 
I thought it looked pretty similar to the bird up in the Borders (Cranshaw) in January 2011 - i think there was some pictures of that bird somewhere (may need a birdguides login).
 
Seen photos on blog, surely not enough to convince county recorder???There seems to have been immediate acceptance of this bird, and I would be delighted if its accepted, but surely there has to be more conclusive evidence??

I have my field sketch and notes, taken at the time...I shall submit those. I know what you mean about the photos...however, the bird which I reported was clearly whiter than any of the birds which you have posted from Redhouse, and it had a pure white rump and UTCs. It was pretty easy, to be honest!
 
Hi Andy
Seen photos on blog, surely not enough to convince county recorder???There seems to have been immediate acceptance of this bird, and I would be delighted if its accepted, but surely there has to be more conclusive evidence??

Sorry, don't want to sound like sour grapes,thats really not the case,but my birds have had intense grilling, with at times excellant photos, and i'm happy that all mine have been mealy(well except maybe one!!).
Are there photos showing all features, perhaps on another site??

Paul

Hi again

I have just looked at these pics too, and it highlights how difficult doing these birds from pics alone can be. Because the bird is on the deck you can’t see certain key features such as the rump and UTCs. It’s another stunningly pale bird tho isn’t it !!

To my eye, the bird in the pics appears to have more features going for exilipes than flammea, extensive white ground colour to the mantle, very broad white GC bar, very fine looking and sparse flank streaks, the head looks plain (as opposed to those contrasty ear coverts seen on many flammea) and maybe subtly buffy too ??

Difficult to judge much about the bill from those pics, and of course rump and UTCs would be required for the CRC, but surely the people watching this bird on site and reporting it will have seen all of these features to support the exilipes conclusion.

So I agree with Paul, maybe not enough in these particular pics to convince a CRC, but I’d like to think the people reporting this bird will have clinched good views of head structure, rump, UTCs etc and made good notes.....?
 
Hopefully there will be some later - these and details are now on my blog

Hi Andy. I met Russell there on Sunday morning. He had some reservations based on photographs, and wanted to see it in the flesh. Do you know if he scored, and what he thought?

Did you see it along the boundry fence by the heather?

Thanks.
 
I have my field sketch and notes, taken at the time...I shall submit those. I know what you mean about the photos...however, the bird which I reported was clearly whiter than any of the birds which you have posted from Redhouse, and it had a pure white rump and UTCs. It was pretty easy, to be honest!

Ian
Please understand I am not questioning you or your skills. Far from it....but 'whiter' isn't enough in my understanding.I have posted tons of interesting birds,,,all mealy I accept that, but the photos on blog are simply not conclusive..thats all i'm saying. We need to pull together and work these birds out!
With that in mind I hope to contact Tillmire tomorrow..so at least u can sort the redhouse birds out!


Paul
 
Hi Andy. I met Russell there on Sunday morning. He had some reservations based on photographs, and wanted to see it in the flesh. Do you know if he scored, and what he thought?

Did you see it along the boundry fence by the heather?

Thanks.

Hi Steve, Russ couldn't make it today but hopefully he'll catch up with it tomorrow. Bird was along the boundary fence but has been seen all around the YWT reserve. They can be very difficult to find though as when they are feeding on the floor they are more-or-less silent and they moved off for some time quite some distance away from the common.

What can't be seen in the photos, but WAS seen in the field was the pure white UTCs and rump etc.
 
I have my field sketch and notes, taken at the time...I shall submit those. I know what you mean about the photos...however, the bird which I reported was clearly whiter than any of the birds which you have posted from Redhouse, and it had a pure white rump and UTCs. It was pretty easy, to be honest!

Heres a pale mealy.....ok not as white, but very pale, and some of these birds have had white rumps in field.When photographed and blown up streaks appear!!
Just an example...I had one bird that was almost snow white...but with a very streaked rump.I have had Lessers with no UTC markings. I am confused...and perhaps my job leads me to question everything...evidence based.I look at some arctics put out as definites and question some of them..look at various links...its not clear cut is all i'm saying...I have learnt that much this winter!!


I'm still hoping to get to Allerthorpe, but time constraints are against me.I hope it is proven to be arctic!!
 

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The bird said to be Arctic does indeed look extremely white, and the underparts look bang on for me. Colouration means little though, as we are discovering. Though can understand the need to note all features, which observers on site appear to have done anyway.
 
Doc have you got the Nils Van Duivendijk Advanced ID guide to the Western Palearctic?

If not heres a scan of the Coues' Arctic Redpoll section in it. As you can see there are many more features to Coues' than rump/UTC/flank-streaking/overall colour. Thought it might be useful.
 

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They can be very difficult to find though as when they are feeding on the floor they are more-or-less silent and they moved off for some time quite some distance away from the common.

No sign of flock today, at Allerthorpe, just odd few birds moving around. Tape attracted a few birds to nets, with 10 Lesser and 2 Mealy caught. Mealy very smart, especially the dark ear coverts with very pale surround. Picture of each bird below...adult landscape, first year portrait! Each has a wing length of 74mm.
 

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Doc have you got the Nils Van Duivendijk Advanced ID guide to the Western Palearctic?

If not heres a scan of the Coues' Arctic Redpoll section in it. As you can see there are many more features to Coues' than rump/UTC/flank-streaking/overall colour. Thought it might be useful.

Good link nice one Tim :t:

Excellent detailed summary.
 
No sign of flock today, at Allerthorpe, just odd few birds moving around. Tape attracted a few birds to nets, with 10 Lesser and 2 Mealy caught. Mealy very smart, especially the dark ear coverts with very pale surround. Picture of each bird below...adult landscape, first year portrait! Each has a wing length of 74mm.

That second one looks very Arctic like with salmon-pink colouration and snow white underparts with wispy streaking. I have given up feeling vaguely capable of identifying these birds. Any more photos of that 2nd bird?
 
That second one looks very Arctic like with salmon-pink colouration and snow white underparts with wispy streaking. I have given up feeling vaguely capable of identifying these birds. Any more photos of that 2nd bird?

I have added another pic of that 2nd bird. It was getting breezy and the feathers are blowing all over the place. You can see, though, that it is certainly NOT an Arctic!! ;)
 
No sign of flock today, at Allerthorpe, just odd few birds moving around. Tape attracted a few birds to nets, with 10 Lesser and 2 Mealy caught. Mealy very smart, especially the dark ear coverts with very pale surround. Picture of each bird below...adult landscape, first year portrait! Each has a wing length of 74mm.

What is bird in pics 2 and 3??(assuming i have it right and same bird)...is it definitely a mealy????Face buff, rump buff but pale forehead! I give in!!!
 
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