Exactly. You don't notice the edges on the EII that much because you have to roll your eyes to see them.
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Spoiled by the SE view...now what? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Super Dave
- Start date
Exactly. You don't notice the edges on the EII that much because you have to roll your eyes to see them.
As the cliché says, "If you can see the hills clearly, it´s going to rain. If you can´t see them, it´s raining already". I feel safer when it looks like rain taking my SV´s out.
John Dracon
John Dracon
I believe it was Dennis who mentioned the end cap of the SEs coming off, and someone mentioned Bushwackers covers pulling the rubber covers off the barrels. From my experience, to prevent all that from happening, I use the Butler Creek covers on my SEs and EIIs. With a wide range of different diameters, the Butler Creek covers provide maximum protection of the objectives, and while aesthetically not very pleasing, they are pure function. And as I have mentioned in other threads, their strong spring action with proper orientation makes their use with porros very efficient and effective. Removing the entire Bulter Creek covers may loosen the coverings of the SEs so every thing comes sliding off.
The press fit covers of my FL binoculars are functional but when pushed off always invite snagging. SEs and EIIs objectives are easily protected by after market covers that work, unlike most covers which come with binoculars today.
The end caps or what some call beauty rings must be easily removed for collimation purposes, particularly for double eccentric systems or even old B&Ls. Covering binoculars with rubber like materials has greatly complicated binocular repairs, particularly the B&L style one piece body as opposed to the Zeiss style.
The EII chassis with its raised metal edges with the recessed areas covered with very thin material (which always comes loose), invites marring, and the uncovered screw- on rings provide no protection whatsoever other than the threads. But the top shelf is there for easy removal, unlike the SEs. John
The press fit covers of my FL binoculars are functional but when pushed off always invite snagging. SEs and EIIs objectives are easily protected by after market covers that work, unlike most covers which come with binoculars today.
The end caps or what some call beauty rings must be easily removed for collimation purposes, particularly for double eccentric systems or even old B&Ls. Covering binoculars with rubber like materials has greatly complicated binocular repairs, particularly the B&L style one piece body as opposed to the Zeiss style.
The EII chassis with its raised metal edges with the recessed areas covered with very thin material (which always comes loose), invites marring, and the uncovered screw- on rings provide no protection whatsoever other than the threads. But the top shelf is there for easy removal, unlike the SEs. John
John Dracon
John Dracon
Since I have never "broken into" either the SE or EII models, I can't describe how the prism systems are secured. The old style system for porros was a metal strap across the prism holding it down into the seats.. Then came glue- in prisms or a combination of both. Old Bushnell models, particularly the plain Jane Banner series had removable prism clusters, which greatly enhanced servicing. I have found the old Zeiss porros to have seats so accurately cast and aligned that prisms could easily be removed for cleaning and then reinstalled keeping the essential 90 degree angle placement.
Perhaps Mr. Link has disassembled either the SEs or EIIs and can share what system is used. I can see glue but nothing else along the prism sides. Or perhaps another person in BF land knows the mechanics used. And again, perhaps this ought to be a separate thread. John
Perhaps Mr. Link has disassembled either the SEs or EIIs and can share what system is used. I can see glue but nothing else along the prism sides. Or perhaps another person in BF land knows the mechanics used. And again, perhaps this ought to be a separate thread. John
henry link
Well-known member
John,
I haven't been inside the SE or EII, but there are some photos attached to posts #17 and 18 in this thread that show some of the details of their construction:
http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=176151
Anyone with experience of old binoculars knows what can happen to metal beauty rings. They lose spots of paint and get dented and dinged up from heavy use. The worst is a dent on the side that freezes the threads.
Henry
I haven't been inside the SE or EII, but there are some photos attached to posts #17 and 18 in this thread that show some of the details of their construction:
http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=176151
Anyone with experience of old binoculars knows what can happen to metal beauty rings. They lose spots of paint and get dented and dinged up from heavy use. The worst is a dent on the side that freezes the threads.
Henry
John Dracon
John Dracon
Henry - Thanks for the thread reference. After checking that out, I decided that it looks too complicated for me to tackle. John
jaymoynihan
Corvus brachyrhynchos watcher
Me too, spoiled by the 8x32 SE. I do not experience the blackout, and they work great for me. I have not tried most of the current generation of uberglass, since it is priced far beyond me. But i still have older uberglass for bad weather days (Leica 10x42 BA, and Zeiss classics 8x30 & 7x42).
Are the 8x30 eII still produced? I remember that one. Very good I thought. Gave it to a girlfriend. Sigh.
Are the 8x30 eII still produced? I remember that one. Very good I thought. Gave it to a girlfriend. Sigh.
David Swain
Well-known member
Thats US $584. Ouch. The SE is cheaper here. Is there a substantial "retro" market in Japan?
Super Dave
Well-known member
With all the E2 talk I had to see for myself what they are all about. I got the 8x30's off Ebay from a forum member.
I can't really tell much of a difference between the E2 and SE in the overall view. One has a wider view and the other has sharper edges. But, to my eyes they give about the same enjoyment. They feel a little different but not that different. Both are great.
I guess with all the opinions on the subject I thought there would be more of a difference.
Take care,
Dave
I can't really tell much of a difference between the E2 and SE in the overall view. One has a wider view and the other has sharper edges. But, to my eyes they give about the same enjoyment. They feel a little different but not that different. Both are great.
I guess with all the opinions on the subject I thought there would be more of a difference.
Take care,
Dave
David Swain
Well-known member
With the EII, swaths of magnesium and retro-romance, with the huge view; with the SE, something you might be willing to bang around and be seen with among the Swaro crowd, who will likely never ask to see through it, but should.
John Dracon
John Dracon
Good summation, David. My Swaro friends give that "oh well, I'll humor him look" when I invite them to take a peek. They are so convinced they have found Nirvana that I have actually annoyed them. Best not to suggest to grown men their personal preferences.....John
Bob,
Just the other day I was around the Salton Sea, in southern CA, with my wife, who, thank God was wearing her Swaro EL. I mean to say, of the perhaps 20 other birders we encountered, fully half were sporting Swaros! I couldn't believe it. Not a Zeiss, not a Leica. Here in New Mexico we almost never see anybody at all. I had my Fujinon 8x30. Nobody spit on me, probably because nobody recognized it as a binocular.
It was fun to see some other birdwatchers. We also saw about a million birds. Good place, the Salton Sea!
Ron
Just the other day I was around the Salton Sea, in southern CA, with my wife, who, thank God was wearing her Swaro EL. I mean to say, of the perhaps 20 other birders we encountered, fully half were sporting Swaros! I couldn't believe it. Not a Zeiss, not a Leica. Here in New Mexico we almost never see anybody at all. I had my Fujinon 8x30. Nobody spit on me, probably because nobody recognized it as a binocular.
It was fun to see some other birdwatchers. We also saw about a million birds. Good place, the Salton Sea!
Ron
mooreorless
Well-known member
Bob at the Hawk Watching site on the mountain close to me, there were three people counting that day and everyone of them had a Swarovski SLC.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=99359
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=99359
David Swain
Well-known member
While I didn't literally mean there are crowds of Swaro owners here in metro-west Boston, in my area there is a distinct cadre of birders who prefer Swaros (among them a prominent guidebook author, and virtually all the top younger birders). On recent trips with the local Audubon chapter in some vans I was usually one of two non-Swaro owners, with a scattering of Swifts or Monarchs. One couple was borrowing both an EL and an SV from a generous friend, but had brought along their Canon 12x. All the Audubon people had Swaros, except for the trip leader who could see everything with or without his Swifts. A friend has SEs, but couldn't tell you in fact what she was using, only that she'd had them for 10 years and was wondering if she should get "something else." Another local birder has used SE 10x for years, but recently showed up with a used pair of ELs he claimed he got for his wife. The real rarities are Zeiss, although I have spotted some Classics and a few FLs recently. I'm not an experienced or well-travelled birder, by any stretch, but I have never seen another pair of EIIs and only 3 SEs. Without doing a thorough socio-economic study of birders and their bins, I'd say that locally Swaro dominates all other brands among experienced birders at least 3 to 1.
The official counters at Hawk Mountain are usually young interns, about 1/2 of them are foreign. It seems to me that most of them use Monarchs. And they are good! The last time I was there the intern at the South Lookout was from Nepal. He was using a Monarch. I was comparing my SE 10 x 42 with my new EDG 10 x 32. He tried both of them and he said he preferred the SE. He liked the traditional porro shape. His specialty was Vultures in the Himalayas and he had used porros there. One of the frequent visitors there is from nearby Reading and he is pretty good. He uses an older Minox 8 x 32 Roof he got for 35 bucks at a closeout when that Astronomy Store in Moscow, PA near Scranton that went bankrupt! I see an occasional Swaro among the visitors but not many-the great majority of the visitors use cheap porros. I did see one guy using a new Silver 10 x 25 Ultravid. Really good looking binocular!
I guess they don't check this forum!
Bob
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David Swain
Well-known member
A good point. There is a certain monoculture of birders with harnesses and top bins and (increasingly) long, white lenses at their sides. Then there is the sweet couple I meet time and again chasing local rarities, driving a rusty old Chrysler and both sporting generic 1970s porros and smiles. They clearly love birding, helped me with a tricky sparrow, and couldn't care less what they or everyone else was looking through, as long as they saw the bird.
While we split hairs and count angels on the heads of increasingly smaller pins, basic optics continue to suffice for many, many birders out there. This might account for the continuing appeal of Monarchs, as many birders of a certain generation moved up to them from old porros and were astonished by what appeared to be a wide-angle view, clarity, and ease of use. Frankly, maybe that's all that matters. As the sages say on another forum, "it's not the bike, it's the rider."
But then again, there was a birder on a recent trip who had just gotten back into birding after a two-decade hiatus while raising kids. She had some older Swift Audubons, and I asked to look through them. I traded her my EIIs. I do not know how she could see anything; they were so clouded with mildew and rot I could only see a narrow, somewhat clear area amid a cloud of brown. I said nothing, and the owner of SEs who got them next didn't either. The Swift owner said "oh, these are nice" and we all let it go at that.
