Vipers
Brunswick Birder
Bloody hell!! Here's me thinking I'm in the know.
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Golden Eagles in England (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter stonedave
- Start date
Bloody hell!! Here's me thinking I'm in the know.
shellscape
Active member
well said!
we are after all, only looking out for the birds- if they are there- the more folk that know, and keep an eye out
for intruders the better- eggers, unfortunatley know before us about most birds of this nature.
This pair, and only this pair i am talking about- will hopefully have a sucsessfull season- where ever they breed, if they do!
eagle golden
Well-known member
Not regarding the raptors on mull your not,
The sniper
Well-known member
Eagle Golden,you have hit the nail on the head,who says which way is the best for protection,of course we trust those involved with birds protection to do their upmost to ensure the very best they can give for the birds,but in cases like this,some people myself included believe that the more people watching the birds the better,just because some of us are merely birders,doesn't mean we shouldn't have a say in these matters,many birders would do just as good a job as those currently working for the birds but their jobs do not allow them to get involved more.Saying that,the people involved in such protection programmes may have it right,who knows,but surely we should all be entitled to have a say and in theory all have the same entitlements to see the said birds.
Hotspur
James Spencer
Yes your entitled to have your say. Nobody will listen as conservation is a science backed up with stats. Im am sure there will be stats on various species for disclosure and non-disclosure of breeding info and the effects this has. I also think there will be times when a loss-leader approach is used where an easily protected or unlikely to succeed pair are made public to direct the gaze of those that would look too closely away from more vulnerable pairs. Perhaps the Haweswater bird is this. The idea that there is some sort of 24 hour armed guard is nuts. What happens if the birds in question if they exist move away to another site. Then what?
Also how does Mull have anything to do with this debate? Yes there are eagles there. Yes they are well watched. But these are in a core area. They are where the sea eagles were expected to breed. A different long-term aim must have been adopted with eco-tourism at the forefront. I struggle to see what can be gained by disclosing information on these (english) birds. Golden Eagle is easy to see in its core range and also at Haweswater. If you like the feeling of discovery, look in some likely places in Scotland. Why jeopardise a pair of birds for self-agrandisement? I understand that people want greater disclosure. Surely a more productive move would be to try and open a discussion on this without making it so emotive by bringing a particular pair/species into it.
Furthermore, how does mocking regular Northumbs birders (the establishment?) improve your case. These are the people who dutifully record the county avifauna? They work for free and do a difficult job sitting in judgement on your records. Why not provide some evidence. In confidence. Remember that Northumbs has a history of obsessive raptor cranks especially with regards Honey Buzzards. The onus of evidence is on the observer to make a water tight case. I have had Goshawk records in Yorkshire rejected due to my lack of track record at the time, unlikely nature of the record and the absence of anything 100% conclusive in my description. Despite this I remain sure of what I saw but it isnt part of the county avifauna and for good reason. It seems in this case there is a lot of human feeling rather than cold observation going on with negative discussion of feelings toward other people/bodies. There is no conspiracy in conservation/birding. We all want to see lots of interesting birds and we want there to be lots of interesting birds to see. Talk of deniers is lunacy - gather a body of evidence, challenge the status quo, change how the species is regarded. Seperately look at forwarding the arguement on disclosure. If you know nothing about the location of rare breeders, using them as an example of suppression is unwise as you may be unaware of issues for them being kept under raps. There have been many times when birds have needlessly been suppressed but they are done so in good faith by people who see themselves as guardians of species (eg North Yorkshire Honey Buzzards).
A sense of scale is needed by people who shouldn't let their ego undermine interesting arguements. Yes there is a discussion, open and frank that needs to be had if people dont believe in suppressing rare breeders but by putting rare breeders at risk you undermine your own position showing your own lack of judgement.
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The sniper
Well-known member
It is obviously a very finely balanced subject,but one thing I do find a bit odd is that there are obviously birds in Dumfries & Galloway and while I only know of possible birds in northumbria due to a few peoples remarks on here or in person,would we be having this conversation if there wasn't a national border there,I know Northumberland is a bit to the east but surely any birds in Northumberland will just be the southern end of the Scottish birds range.If there wasn't a border,I doubt very much there would be secrecy regarding the birds,I may be wrong but if they weren't just over the border I don't think the issue would be the same,poor birds,as far as they are concerned there is no border,just a lot of hills to search out prey
Hotspur
James Spencer
There are VERY few birds due to high levels of perscution in the southern uplands. This is why they are rare in England.
The sniper
Well-known member
I understand that,just wondering that if it wasn't a factor that birds to England were so rare,that any Northumberland birds would just be left to their own devices.I know it's a silly point to make in all honesty,just think the border may be more key to any protection due to lack of GE in England
shark attack
Well-known member
Here's me taking all the flack for mentioning a huge county...yet we have people starting to name specific places...whether right or wrong i have never done that. However I must be the luckiest person in the world to spot not 1but 2 eagles flying right by no more than 50 yds away and actually just below me.. I will be honest this was in 2006............seen 1 eagle again in 2007 in a completely different area "Displaying" this leads me to believe it was either a different eagle or one of the pair I saw the previous year ...but then why would it be displaying ?? and do you know what this thread is getting boring people claiming this and that. I had every opportunity to come on here and discuss this when the birds where there but I chose not to. I only brought the subject up after they had left cos i thought it was safe to do so. I thought it was sad that they had chose to move and that if the site had been made public they would have probably still been there. problem was people in "the no" who new they were there probably caused more disturbance than anyone else and thats what saddens me. The birds are still around just cos they dont nest there anymore does not mean to say they do not visit there old territory...in fact it is common knowledge that they WILL visit their old haunts. i have mentioned on here before the forestry commission has a lot to answer for..i couldn't believe what they had done near the nesting area. I would love to be able to tell the story about these eagles where they were and how many times I sat for sometimes 10 hrs a day watching them but I cant because one day they might come back...thats why i still not have disclosed any more info other than the county of Northumberland. I know they are still around because I have found fresh pellets underneath where one of them used to roost...have also found the leg of a wild mountain goat nearby which couldn't have been more than a few hours old flesh still hanging from it. This is the first time I have disclosed this info. One massive pellet coughed up had a racing pigeons ring in it ( I found out from the owner when the pigeon went missing and where it had been and come from etc etc ) when I told him where i found the ring he was well amazed !!!!!!!!!! I could go on and on about these Eagles and stories some of you would love to here others just think i am an irresponsible waster who goes out of their way to disturb schedule 1 birds. Like I said I did not choose to discuss all the above when it was happenning....only when they had left.......had I disclosed all this info at the time it might have put the birds at harm thats why i didnt. After all if the facts are known how can you possibly put some birds future in the balance 6 or 7 years later after they had left...had i been irresponsible I could have divulged all this info a long time ago. I started this topic off because they should still be there and its annoying they are not. A little camera afew feet away with a live feed to the nearby visitors centre maybe a few RSPB wardens on hand...just like they do with several Osprey nests through out the UK including the one and only kielder site would have done the trick. If your lucky and patient the birds can still often be seen but you can argue all day long about these birds Im sure people may have seen GE in Northumberland that might be passing or on a day out from Southern Scotland who knows........................but one thing is for sure these birds are their for all to see LEGALLY..........from a road no lawbreaking what so ever............UNFORTUNATELY.... " some but not all "Northumberland birders or shall i say the one's "in the no" would have you believe you wouldn't see a GE up there even if one came up and bit you on the arse and that is sad to say the least !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eagle golden
Well-known member
Hi shark, I have also had some very enlightening info on these birds, the only thing I would argue with you is no please dont let the organisation you mentioned get involved, i have never know such mixed messages comming from that particular quarter, I would surgest to anyone interested in large raptors to get hold of Dave Walkers book (Call of the Eagle, it opens your eyes to this particular bunch, hope the skying went well, dont forget the info for me.
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shark attack
Well-known member
Hello eagle golden..............I promised i would try and get that info...and have tryed and cant..........the guy has moved house and I have no way of contacting him. If it helps it was a book published in the late 70s by Northumberland Bird Club on sightings in Northumberland. I am sure there was a loyt more than one copy...i cant believe that no one has come forward to re iterate my story and findings in the book. I remember exactly where the juvenile GE was spotted and where a frustration eeryie was found. Its all in the same area...mind you what it does not mention is where the actual eeryie was where the chick had been raised.But for obvious reasons i can totally understand why this wasnt published...what I cant understand is why the area where the juvenile was spotted was published. It seems to me like someone wanted to reveal there magnificent find...without revealing the true location of the true nesting location...but what really puzzles me is that a lot of people " in the know " already knew because there was two hides built directly opposite the eeryie one the size of a cabin which is still there and the other a lot smaller. it must have took a great deal of time to build the larger one....these were both manned by protectionists and the Army....yet apparantely it still got robbed. Peregrine site nearby as well but these hides wre not built for them im sure.
eagle golden
Well-known member
Now that is very strange, but an army officer who worked on security at our local american base, left some years ago to work in the northumberland area in raptor protection, i met him when i did a talk, at the base on raptors, i will see what i can dig up, as for the report i will see what i can find thanks anyway.
shellscape
Active member
I saw a bird today, briefly. as i was at work- it was on the Scottish side of the valley- hunting North i think.
eagle golden
Well-known member
Hi there hope you are well, we are going to come up your area in the near future, hope we can meet up. are you looking at the thread, (white tailed eagles loch don), something a bit simalar but i think it is going to come to a head as i have had enough of these burecrats. who think they know it all.
shellscape
Active member
Never really looked at that thread- havnt been on here much!- only say what i see so to say! may be up in the area tommorow-
Lots depend upond the Girlfriend! (lol)
