Golden Eagles in England (1 Viewer)

I am in no rush to see the birds,I have merely heard info from a couple of sources about more than just the haweswater bird.Surely if there are other birds in the north of the country then they will be guarded and even cameras set up in case of eggers etc,that's the sort of thing our RSPB membership money should be spent on,not playgrounds at reserves like at rainham

Hotspur said:

Potentially you are commiting an offence. Disturbance of a schedule 1 breeding bird is illegal. You are seeking information about schedule 1 breeding birds (particularly sensitive ones as well). To what end? To go birdwatching surely? Or egging perhaps? (playing devil's advocate - not really accusing you of being an egger). Either activity would POTENTIALLY cause disturbance and would thus be illegal. Obviously egging is illegal by definition. Ergo you can't ask for this information without it being surreptitious in nature. The info in the public domain is in atlas's etc. The level of info that you should know is in there. Usually for schedule 1 birds at county level and no more detail.

Such knowledge is a privilege not a right. You are lucky if you do know some inside info and are keeping schtum.

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RUBBISH..................Potentially you are not committing any offence at all merely asking where you might see a shedule 1 species. If you are asking where the schedule 1 species is breeding / nesting..u find out and then go and get caught red handed at the site you deserve all you get.

if I asked how to committ the perfect bank robbery would that be committing an offence...NO of course not. If I asked how to committ the perfect robbery and then got caught doing it...thats a different ball game and i would be committing an offence fair enough ??? I have been approached before by wildlife officers twice...have i ever been hauled before the courts for unlawfull behaviour NO.............WHY... because I was not committing any offences !!! maybe that should settle the argument...but no a lot of people on here know more than the police and the wildlife officers...or so they think, well there wrong.

Let the people who are employed to stop wildlife crime make the decisions and the courts to punish accordingly..............until then all of us who want to see a GE or any other BOP for that matter are no different to anyone else.

Oh sorry we are different........... we might not be a member of a birdclub.

regards


David

shark attack said:

I have been approached before by wildlife officers twice...

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Perhaps that should tell you something then. I haven't, and I guess most people here haven't either.

The sniper said:

I am in no rush to see the birds,I have merely heard info from a couple of sources about more than just the haweswater bird.Surely if there are other birds in the north of the country then they will be guarded and even cameras set up in case of eggers etc,that's the sort of thing our RSPB membership money should be spent on,not playgrounds at reserves like at rainham

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Sniper I was a fully payed up member of the RSPB until a few years ago , I rang them up to enquire as to why they do not spend some of our money protecting the very eagles in question....just as they do with Osprey's all over the country.

There answer was unbelievable to say the least.

There reply was that the GE in question were in fact NOT THERE !!!!

God knows in a million year why they go to so much effort , time and money to attract visitors to osprey sites with the man made platforms , live cameras etc etc when they are " two a penny " so to speak, yet ignore the presence of GE. Dont get me wrong I totally agree with what they do with the Osprey's but why have at least 8 sites nationally with live cameras and not one for GE through out the whole of the UK.

If they did we might have a lot less people busting their B******S to try and see a GE in the wild.


Regards


David

Apodemus said:

Perhaps that should tell you something then. I haven't, and I guess most people here haven't either.

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Well then I have come across people who have been approached by wildlife officers........one couple who decided on a trip to the isle of Mull, instead of paying pay the £40.00 each for the " official trip"( that would have been £80.00 ) they decided to go their own way to see or try and see WTSE.

They were questioned or asked as to what they were upto, these by the way were a middle aged couple who had travelled from way down south to try and spot the birds without forking out a small fortune , after all they had spent a lot on petrol , 2 nights accommodation and £70 odd quid for the ferry , the outset was these people were well within their rights to try and spot WTSE without the extra cost..........this couple I met up at Gruinard bay 2 summers ago.
There is also the story of a friends son who rang me to let me know that his son had been more or less "arrested" not far away from a Peregrine's nest his crime rock climbing. Not to mention the guy who had the same treatment for walking his dog on Langholme moor...and many more cases.

What does that tell you ?????????? I have nothing against protection in fact im all for it but dont assume for one minute that i am the only person to have had that experience.

Most people who come on here preaching the right and wrongs about birding and what you should do and shouldn't do should stick to what they get paid for their daytime jobs.

Ive been watching GE now for 20 years spending weeks at a time mainly in Scotland and all the Western Isles and never ever have I been told that I am breaking the law.... other than by those on here who are not qualified to even tell me that I am.............so take your head head from out of your own A** and wake up.

Let people go about birding the way they see it, and let the authorities decide who is doing things the wrong way ....thats what they get paid for..anybody who does it the " wrong way " will get prosecuted anybody who does not are doing nothing wrong.

You have no argument !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards


David

shark attack said:

Well then I have come across people who have been approached by wildlife officers........one couple who decided on a trip to the isle of Mull, instead of paying pay the £40.00 each for the " official trip"( that would have been £80.00 ) they decided to go their own way to see or try and see WTSE.

They were questioned or asked as to what they were upto, these by the way were a middle aged couple who had travelled from way down south to try and spot the birds without forking out a small fortune , after all they had spent a lot on petrol , 2 nights accommodation and £70 odd quid for the ferry , the outset was these people were well within their rights to try and spot WTSE without the extra cost..........this couple I met up at Gruinard bay 2 summers ago.
There is also the story of a friends son who rang me to let me know that his son had been more or less "arrested" not far away from a Peregrine's nest his crime rock climbing. Not to mention the guy who had the same treatment for walking his dog on Langholme moor...and many more cases.

What does that tell you ?????????? I have nothing against protection in fact im all for it but dont assume for one minute that i am the only person to have had that experience.

Most people who come on here preaching the right and wrongs about birding and what you should do and shouldn't do should stick to what they get paid for their daytime jobs.

Ive been watching GE now for 20 years spending weeks at a time mainly in Scotland and all the Western Isles and never ever have I been told that I am breaking the law.... other than by those on here who are not qualified to even tell me that I am.............so take your head head from out of your own A** and wake up.

Let people go about birding the way they see it, and let the authorities decide who is doing things the wrong way ....thats what they get paid for..anybody who does it the " wrong way " will get prosecuted anybody who does not are doing nothing wrong.

You have no argument !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards


David

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David potentially you are breaking the law. Potentially. If a wildlife officer is talking to you then maybe you should reassess your methods. I cant believe you are deliberately trying to disturb wild birds but purely stating the length of time you have been watching them doesn't make you above the law. What is wrong with people being kept away from raptor nests? You state that the middle aged couple were warded away from a WTE site. Perhaps with good reason. How do you know they werent egging? How old do you suppose eggers are? Most who have been arrested seem to be middle aged. How can you be so laissez-faire about birds you pupport to love? Why make authorities decide whether something is wrong? Why not play it safe? There are plenty of areas where good views of all UK raptors can be seen in safety.

You sir are a sh1t stirrer who enjoys playing on a very delicate subject which you dont seem to appreciate and by claiming that other people know nothing you undermine your own arguement. There are many conservationists and scientists on this forum and very few would endorse public exchange of information and encroachment on nesting raptors, especially those which are schedule 1 species. Do you understand the EU birds directive? Seemingly not I would suggest. I have reported a number of posts on this thread and contacted mods about this thread but as yet have had no response. I urge you to reconsider your view publicly. I understand that a differently held private view may be aired in non-public forum but this IS a public forum and as such not the place to air such views. Maybe petitioning the Northumbs Wildlife trust or RSPB in private?

regards

James

I have just been contacted by an acquaintance to alert me that despite his lack of prior knowledge the info on this thread has helped him find the nest site through trawling the net. Enough said. I seriously suggest this thread is closed.

The information is obviously there so closing the thread would in my opinion gain nothing. A determined egger would have trawled the net as a matter of course. I doubt anything they might read in this forum about nesting birds of any kind is news to such individuals.

If there are any numbers of breeding pairs in northen England,they will be guarded like the crown jewels,if they were not then there is something wrong with conservation in this country.As determined eggers are,they would have to be suicidal to go near such a site

The sniper said:

If there are any numbers of breeding pairs in northen England,they will be guarded like the crown jewels,if they were not then there is something wrong with conservation in this country.As determined eggers are,they would have to be suicidal to go near such a site

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Like the 3 different eggers found at the red-backed shrike site last year in Devon despite there being no info 'out there'. Or the egged who died falling out of a tree going after goshawk a few years ago.

shark attack said:

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Regards


David

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Hi David iv only known of these rather clandestine professionals to fail once and only because they where instructed to allow a site to be robbed,as a prosecution was necessary to put an individual behind bars

Hotspur said:

I have just been contacted by an acquaintance to alert me that despite his lack of prior knowledge the info on this thread has helped him find the nest site through trawling the net. Enough said. I seriously suggest this thread is closed.

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Are you for real.............i have never ever "found" this site at all by trawling the birdforum.........if you care to look at any of my posts or threads you will find out that my very first posts / threads on here were only from approx 5 maybe 6 years ago at most. Ive been watching the GE's in question since 1990 back then I didnt even have a computer and certainly had not even heard of the birdforum.

if i had " found " this site by trawling the birdforum as you " say " then someone must have been giving out a hell of a lot of info on the forum than they should have been.

And really if you think about it you should be able to back your argument up with the posts that I have trawled through and found to enable me to " find this site " im sure they still exist.........and im also sure you will be able to come up with absolutely nothing.

So once again your accusations come with nothing to back up what you are actually saying. I have known for a long time where the birds used to nest in the 70s...i have seen photos of 1 young in the nest taken from 10 feet away at their original nesting site incidentally taken by a so called " protectionist" a protectionist who is meant to be protecting the birds 200yds away in a hide!!! not sneeking up to within 10 feet of the nest taking polaroids ( and that's what it was a poloriod ) when no one is looking !! he is actually doing the very thing that he is meant to be STOPPING!!! THATS WHAT I CANT GET MY HEAD AROUND..........certainly not taken by me...this site I have never ever disclosed...........the new site once again I have never ever disclosed.........the only thing I have ever mentioned on here was that they are in Northumberland.

If I was as irresponsible as what I am made out to be i could have given away a lot more information as to the true location of both nesting sites.....this I have never ever done. What I have done is try to give people the opportunity to see the birds from a place where there would be no disturbance at all........ZERO DISTURBANCE NILCH NON WHATSOEVER.

People have seen the Eagle's lots of people but none of them have the foggiest where they breed...they do not want to know where they breed they just want to see them. Lots of people want to see them...even just a speck in the sky would make their day...but for reasons unknown to me peopl e want to deny them that little bit of something they have always longed for...well im sorry but it is not in my nature to mislead and lie and make up stories that they are not there only because selfish me has seen them.

The way you use your words and say things say things like " my acquaintance has alerted me about me and my lack of knowledge" etc etc just makes me think that your head is actually further up your own A*** than i actually thought !!!!!!!!!!!!

The best thing you can do is not join in this conversation unless you have something positive to bring to it....and if anyone else alerts you about me inform them that you would prefer to go back to sleep and that you would rather not be disturbed at least until in the morning.


Regards


David

Do we really think that eggers know nothing about where rare birds nest? I bet they spend much more time birdwatching than real birders. Their passion is wrong and it is the sort which would probably push them to spend more time out there.

If people wanted to surely it could not be that difficult to find a GE nest site in Northumberland unless on restricted land? My guess is that experienced eggers are far more knowledgeable about rare species than many birdwatchers.

I find the secrecy and hush hush a bit too much at times but then again I have little knowledge of how active eggers are out there so I guess it is necessary.

The eggers trying for the r b shrike were all caught and no eggs taken if I remember correctly so the authorities were obviously up on the mark.As for the goshawk,not too sure on that Case but a goshawk site would be harder to police than an Erie I would of thought,although if found easier to get at in principal

Although egg colectors are a real threat another serious danger is crowds of enthusiastic, stupid birders...both threats have a real potential for disturbance.

If you are below the border I reckon this thread is a good place to start to look if you want to find golden eagle a hundred miles from your house :C

I do agree about stupid birders,I have seen my fair share over the years.Birders need to actually police other birders more,all too often they turn a blind eye to blatant disregard to birds but on this occasion we are merely talking about seeing birds not in the nest but in specific areas,surely a right of every law abiding citizen in this country and beyond

jerkin said:

Hi David iv only known of these rather clandestine professionals to fail once and only because they where instructed to allow a site to be robbed,as a prosecution was necessary to put an individual behind bars

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Im sorry Jerkin but take a good look at what you have just wrote and convince me with some proof that what you have just said is true.

I like most people on here hate egg thieves , i do not see why anyone would want to do what they do but for some unknown reason they still want to do it.

What your saying is that the people who may have been guarding a nest allowed someone or some people to rob the nest in order to get a conviction.

Well if that is true i am gobsmacked.........because it must be the only case in the history of protection where the thief has been allowed to carry out the theft of an egg to warrant a conviction i really do find this hard to believe but if you have that on good authority than you know a lot more than I do for sure.

if what your saying is true and the prosecution went ahead could you elaborate on the year the theft took place , what his or their sentence and fine was ??? With a good bit of homework really you should even be able to come up with the circumstances of how they were caught and why they were allowed to go as far as to steal whatever it was they stole. 1 egg 2 eggs...how long had they been waiting for these thieves to turn up and maybe more importantly why the egg/s were not put back straight away giving the parents time to continue incubating.

Hundreds of eeryies have been photographed over the years with eggs in the nest and have still went on to be incubated until hatching by the parents.

GE do not desert easily, like most other birds they will come back to incubate eggs and feed young , it is only when they are kept away from the nest for a prolonged period of time that they will give up.

Anyway im not disputing what you have said because I don't know...but some kind of records would back up your story. A lot of peregrine sites were robbed and even destroyed back in the 70s 80s and even the 90s all which have been publicised to deter anymore would be robbers etc etc , im sure that if A GE site had been robbed especially in this vicinity it would have been big news.

I know that the original site was robbed as it was very very easy to access...what I would dispute is that it was allowed to be robbed.

Anyway we all have our own thoughts about what has gone on and what's going on as we speak...........if we all thought alike we would not be having this very heated debate.

Just remember though thee most respected and first class ornithologist this country has ever come across did not have a Schedule 1 licence.

Work that one out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


regards


David

dafi said:

Although egg colectors are a real threat another serious danger is crowds of enthusiastic, stupid birders...both threats have a real potential for disturbance.

If you are below the border I reckon this thread is a good place to start to look if you want to find golden eagle a hundred miles from your house :C

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Hi Dafi..............im sorry but you are wrong.

if you care to Google how many people travel to the isle of mull to see GE and WTSE you will find out that the numbers probably run into thousands.

Mull is an area of land no different to any other area of land and the people who go there might be irresponsible they may be experienced i would't like to say. However the fact is the birds there whether it be GE or WTSE couldn't give a toss. There has been very few cases on the island where these people have had that much of an impact where it has caused the birds any harm. In fact i no of only 1 case a couple of years ago where some idiot sat underneath a WTSE nest for 45 min or so causing it to desert he was fined £600 other than that i know of no other cases.

Taking into account hundreds if not thousands of visitors I dont think 1 case in the last few years is a bad return......considering they rake in not thousands of pounds but apparantely millions.

Everybody is aware of the damage irresponsible birders can do...but for some reason i can not predict hundreds of irresponsible birders descending on Northumberland and camping out underneath the eeryie that would not be allowed to happen.

i think most people could forgive maybe half a dozen at most 4 mile down the road with their very posh scopes hoping for a glimpse of one of the eagle's 2 mile up in the sky.................i dont thing the birds would be none of the wiser............in fact i think they would be a lot less bothered than some of the people on here.

regards


David

I am sorry if I mislead anyone into thinking that a Eagle nest was deliberately allowed to be robbed this incident of allowing a nest to be robbed involved Peregrines

jerkin said:

I am sorry if I mislead anyone into thinking that a Eagle nest was deliberately allowed to be robbed this incident of allowing a nest to be robbed involved Peregrines

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Morning Jerkin ,

Many thanks for clearing that up and apologies for being a bit pushy.

Regards


David