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Zen Ray ED2 8x42 and 10x42 evaluations and review (1 Viewer)

mgv410 said:
Here is the response i got from Zen


I am about to address this issue. What you see is very common among wide angle binoculars. Try one of the most expensive European binoculars with >400ft FOV for 8x. You will see the same effect.

" I'd like to comment on the gray crescent you saw on the binoculars. First of all, it is not stray light or internal light reflection. As one of the posters correctly pointed out, those will severely downgrade the overall contrast of the binoculars.

When ZEN ED or ED2 was designed, we focused on optimizing the native optical performance without artificially restricting its FOV. With its 65degree APOV, its performance has been proven among many users. However, there is still residual field curvature at the very edge of the FOV. It may show up as a very narrow gray band at extreme edge under certain lighting condition if you pay attention to it. It appears a cresent at the bottom because of the placement of eyes relative to the exit pupil circle.

If you have a chance to look through other more expensive Wide angle binoculars under certain condition, you will see the same effect as well."

Thanks. I hope this little background information is helpful.

Charles
Click to expand...


I got the same response from Charles regarding the hazy bottom edges that I am seeing in my Gen 1 ZEN EDs. I agree with EDZ that this explanation does not really explain the ghosting phenomena that I am seeing. Now I have another wide angle bin i.e. the Celestron Ultima DX 8X32. It has a FOV of about 426 feet and has significant field of curvature and it is by no means an expensive wide angle binocular. But I do not see this veiling/hazy bottom edges problem in it. In fact the edges of the Celestron are purely a field of curvature as they do reach focus if one tries to focus, which is not the case with the Zen Ray ED as the edges never reach focus.

In the original thread started by me here

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=148726

Henry suggested to look at the bottom of the exit pupil after moving my eyes a foot or two back from from the eyepieces. I saw exactly what he described as "a dead ringer for the effect caused by a reflection at the edge of the exit pupil (actually formed at the edge of the objective or the focusing element)". It is a bright rim at the bottom of the exit pupil. This is the cause of the hazy arcs and I confirmed it yesterday in the setting evening sun.

Looks like there is not much one can do about this problem and even sending my bin back to Zen Ray may not really solve this problem. However I am surprised that non of the early reviewers saw this problem though Kevin Purcell made a brief hint of some stray lighting issue in his multi bin shootout. This stray light issue in my opinion can cause quite an annoyance while on the field and I really wonder how it was missed by almost everyone here. Looks like maybe, I am too finicky or my eyes are a touch too sensitive or I was expecting too much after the glowing reviews this bin has got everywhere :). But If Celestron could do it in their cheap porro prism Ultima, I thought Zen Ray should have been able to do it which otherwise is a pretty fine binocular.

Regards,

Mayur
 
Hello,

This morning was overcast as expected. Using an 8x32 FL, looking up at trees, I noticed a blue crescent at the bottom edge of the FOV. It disappeared when I tweaked the binocular's position. Is that what causes concerns to others? Or is this a different optical artefact?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
Pinewood said:
Hello,

This morning was overcast as expected. Using an 8x32 FL, looking up at trees, I noticed a blue crescent at the bottom edge of the FOV. It disappeared when I tweaked the binocular's position. Is that what causes concerns to others? Or is this a different optical artefact?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
Click to expand...

That sounds like the "crescent" veiling glare artifact, Arthur.
 
Hi everyone, first post on the site. I received my 10x43 ED2s 3 days ago and have been playing with them extensively. I've read all of the reviews (by edz and others) and would like to chime in with my own observations: I do see the grey ghost crescent at the bottom of the lens, but frankly, I have to move my pupils VERY LOW on the lens to get it. Not sure how this compares to the 8x ED2s. Had I not read about it, I would'nt have noticed it. I just have to move the bins to such an exaggerated position to get it that I doubt It will ever bother me. I'm interested to see if any other 10x owners have this same experience. I bought these as a second pair to take hunting here in Arizona. In fact, I brought out my primary pair (EL 8.5x42s) and tried to replicate the same ghost effect. It was definitely there: A fuller, yet dimmer, crescent than the Zens, but I didn't have to move the bins as far out of alignment to get it. I'm no 40-pound head when it comes to optics, but I like what I've seen thus far. I'll let you guys know how they hold up after 2 weeks of trudging around the mountains.
 
I have a completely different opinion and test results to support. This has nothing to do with eye position, or head angle.

My tests agree with and confirm Henry's suspicion of reflections. I've provided a thorough discussion of the issue in my review.

edz
 
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I found the problem in the ED1 8x43 ,and it was mentioned and discussed a little in the original thread about the binocular..I pointed the reflective grease inside the tube,as a possible cause..I know other binoculars also show some sort of ghosting or internal reflections under certain conditions..I compared the ZEN with Swaro 8.5x43 in an occasion ,and although some contrast was lost in the swaro too ,due to the crescent,I saw more of it in the Zen .
Henry Link points the cause to be some reflection near the edge ,or around the objective,and there's where the grease lies..Couldnt this be the cause?..or part of the cause?..maybe an accumulation of reflections ,of different nature can be the ultimate cause...
edz
This effect,was controlled TO AN EXTENT by eye positioning/binocular angle and so on.and The large exit pupil of the ZEN helped in this respect,but as soon as the binocular pointed to certain angle ,This effect would show
 
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edz said:
I have a completely different opinion and test results to support. This has nothing to do with eye position, or head angle.

My tests agree with and confirm Henry's suspicion of reflections. I've provided a thorough discussion of the issue in my review.

edz
Click to expand...

Test results on the 8x or the 10x? I haven't looked through an 8x ED2, only the 10x, and my eye's position on the lens makes a HUGE difference.
 
kristoffer said:
How much of an issue is this? From your conversation it sounds like a huge problem, I have not tried it yet so hard to tell.
Click to expand...

I doubt it is much of an issue with most normal viewing conditions. I have never seen the phenomena described in what I would call normal viewing conditions. I wondered about that quite a bit. I read edz's last post on Cloudy Nights where he commented about reflection from the retaining ring on the objective and from light coming in from above the binocular. When I was reading that post, I had a thought. I use Bushwacker flip up objective covers on both my Promaster and ZEN ED binoculars. This creates a bit of an extension, sort of like a sunshade, which may block the light edz talked about coming from above the binocular. So maybe that is why I do not see this, and it might be a potential easy fix for those who are bothered by this. Those standard objectives need to be replaced anyway as the do not stay on worth a hoot.

However there is still something I have not grasped quite yet. If I take the Bushwhackers off, then I can see the effect that has been described,but ONLY if I place my head at angles which I normally would not use. I actually need a pretty grotesque off angle posture that would kink Paul Bunyan's neck. Almost like looking through the bottom half of the binocular EP with the top half of my pupil. So I don't yet readily see why this is not at least partially eye position related.
 
You'll note then, that in my tests I mounted the binoculars so my eyes could be perfectly level and on-axis and that is how I easily saw the glare. I tested the ZEN ED2 8x43 and found it to show the worst glare of about a dozen binoculars tested at same time under same conditions.

edz
 
Having never seen either the ED1 or ED2, I know this glare thing that edz is referring to was pointed out with the ED1 in earlier threads, but I think it was not given much notice. Can someone comment as to whether the effect is more evident with the ED2, or was it the same in ED1 and just not given as much attention? Those who might wish to comment might like a few more days with the bins before commenting, so I (we) can wait.

marty
 
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Edz, like others have said, thanks for looking at the ED2s. I took my 10x ED2s out after reading your experiment with the "glare shield". Out in the Arizona sun, shielding did get rid of the blue/gray crescent when it appeared. In my 10xs, however, even in the full afternoon sun (looking west), without a glare shield, I had to practically have my eyebrows on the exit lens before it appeared. It took THAT MUCH misalignment to see the phenomenon. I don't doubt that the 8x you tested gave the glare, but I am just NOT seeing that with these 10xs. Having not laid eyes on a pair of 8x binos, I'm not sure what the difference would be...could they have a differently shaped case around the objective lens giving better glare protection? I doubt it, though...I'm just looking for others' experience with the 10x ED2s.

BTW, I'm not a Zen rep, or anything. In fact, having this pair and a pair of 8.5 EL Swaros, I'll state that the difference between the two is still very apparent. I love this new pair, but I don't hold it in the same class as the Swaro.
 
This Kind of glare ,was also associated,in some other thread,with the design of the Eyepieces in WIDER angle binoculars..perhaps the 10X with a more moderate FOV is free of these artifacts to a more larger extent..
 
The ZenRay spec for the ED2 8x43 TFOV is 8.1°, whereas the 7x36 is 9.1°. If this glare issue is indeed related to the wider field of view in these designs, I wonder if it will be worse in the 7x36. Mine have shipped but it's an even bet whether I'll see them Saturday or next Monday. I'll be comparing mine to my Swaro 7x42B Swarobright SLCs with their more pedestrian 8° TFOV.
 
If you had as many floaters as I do, you'd be too busy moving your eyeball around to get rid of them to notice those crescent rolls. :)

I've seen this phenomenon on many bins when the sun was overhead and I was looking for birds in the trees. So the "tilt theory" sounds plausible to me.

I did not notice the infamous gray crescent on the Promaster ED, which seems to be another Chinese ED clone.

I used the Promaster on an overcast winter's day, and I was impressed how it showed almost no CA on two hawks in a nearby tree with a back lit gray sky.

I actually did see a green crescent in the bottom of the bins while looking for CA when viewing the sky through the thin supports of a basketball hoop, and I thought "Ah, hah!" (I was trying to find a reason why the ED was not as good as my LX :), but it turned out to be a reflection of the green courts below the hoop.

The focuser was sluggish. So if they made it faster, that is a welcomed change.

Now if the ED2 could only dance and sing, it could finally compete with alpha bins costing $1,400 more. :)

And to think, Steve and Frank call me "picky"!

Brock
 
Brock, I think maybe Frank D sings and dances when he gets a new binocular, would that be the same.;):-O All joking aside Frank is a great guy!:t:
Regards,Steve
 
mayoayo said:
This Kind of glare ,was also associated,in some other thread,with the design of the Eyepieces in WIDER angle binoculars..perhaps the 10X with a more moderate FOV is free of these artifacts to a more larger extent..
Click to expand...

the 10x binocs have exactly the same Afov eyepieces as the 8x, 65°.
 
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